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Old 03-25-2008, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,684 posts, read 49,455,573 times
Reputation: 19134

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
This is also a real problem for Universal Health Care.

I work with several Doctors now that do not accept any form of insurance...
There is no method in existence, to give 100% of all USA residents high-quality, cradle-to-grave, complete coverage, free medical care.

I have lived in other nations where they do operate nationalized medical coverage. The old are only given pain killers, no surgeries and no life-saving procedures are allowed. Everyone else is treated like cattle. Good doctors who have valuable skills leave those countries and go elsewhere so they can earn high incomes; leaving the mediorce doctors there on the government's salary.

When 80% of our nation are all on some form of prescription drugs. And when 50% of them do not earn enough to equal their own drug costs. Then there is a huge problem.

Increase our taxes to 50% and you would only cover every one's drugs. No doctors, no advanced hi-tech surgeries, no ortho-scoptic laser anything.

A century ago, there were few drugs and what drugs did exist they were cheap. The most expensive medical procedure someone might have done would cost less than one pig.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:32 PM
GLS
 
1,985 posts, read 4,847,602 times
Reputation: 2408
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
A century ago, there were few drugs and what drugs did exist they were cheap. The most expensive medical procedure someone might have done would cost less than one pig.
Agreed, but a century ago you didn't have Rogaine to pull your hair forward, Botox to pull your face back, Viagra to point at the person you thought was attractive, Zoloft to keep you from crying if the Viagra didn't work, and Cipro and Amoxicillin to treat yourself if the Viagra did work.

Also, you can't pay with a pig anymore, because the pig is rolling on the ground laughing so hard the Doctor can't get him into a sack.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,684 posts, read 49,455,573 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS View Post
Agreed, but a century ago you didn't have Rogaine to pull your hair forward, Botox to pull your face back, Viagra to point at the person you thought was attractive, Zoloft to keep you from crying if the Viagra didn't work, and Cipro and Amoxicillin to treat yourself if the Viagra did work.

Also, you can't pay with a pig anymore, because the pig is rolling on the ground laughing so hard the Doctor can't get him into a sack.
My Dw paid for her pre-natal care and mid-wife with homemade goat cheese.
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:31 PM
GLS
 
1,985 posts, read 4,847,602 times
Reputation: 2408
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
My Dw paid for her pre-natal care and mid-wife with homemade goat cheese.
I am a healthcare consultant and I would definitely work for home made goat cheese. I spread it on Endive leaves, add a little bacon (from the pig we used to get paid with), add some walnuts, and lightly drizzle on a touch of oil and vinegar. Great with a glass of Viognier.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Ocean Shores, WA
5,081 posts, read 12,974,472 times
Reputation: 10648
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS View Post
I am a healthcare consultant and I would definitely work for home made goat cheese...
The problem isn't what the payment consists of, it's how much of it is required.

A bill for several tons of goat cheese is no easier to pay than a bill for several thousand dollars.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:49 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,738,716 times
Reputation: 46028
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
A paper recently wrote an article about a couple nearing retirement and losing their home. The article was sympathetic to the couple, but I saw things differently.

They bought their house 30 years ago with a $99,000 mortgage. Ten years later they refinanced for renovations and to take care of credit card debt. They then refinanced in 2002 and 2006.

Now, with the husband at age 62 and the wife 57 ( she just lost her job and took one with a $7 per hour pay cut) they wanted to refinance again.

The bank told them their house had dropped a lot in value and the value was now the same as what they owed----$140,000

Any couple who bought a house 30 years ago and put themselves in a position where nearing retirement their mortgage is 40% more than the original mortgage sure wasn't thinking.

Yup--------many people fell for those ads-"Cash out the equity in your house. Take a cruise, you deserve it"

I guess they never considered the ramifications of nearing reirement age and having a mortgage 40% higher than when they bought it 30 years ago.
Boy, you said a mouthful there. Basically these people blew their money and behaved like improvident spendthrifts over the years, and now they want to be the poster children for the cruel economy. Personally, I'm really tired of listening to people clamoring for more government intervention in the economy. Especially when my wife and I (two solidly middle-class individuals) have done all the right things and are looking at retiring in our mid-50s.

I haven't visited this thread in several weeks, and I see the whiners have been at it full force. So let's try this again:

1) EVERYBODY can retire by age 65 if they actually manage their lives with a semblance of common sense during their working lives.

2) What is a "semblance of common sense"? Saving 10% of their earnings and sticking it in an IRA or other safe investments. Not borrowing money on credit cards to buy things you don't need. And if you've accumulated $30k-$40k in credit card debt over the years, then that means you've almost certainly blown the money on the shiniest, latest, and greatest, rather than have the discipline to do without.

3) If you can't save 10% of your salary, then you are doing something fundamentally wrong in your life. Do yourself a big fat favor right now and list everything you've spent your money on in the past month, from movie tickets to that daily cuppa from Starbucks. You'll be shocked at how much money you allowed to slip through your fingers. And you'll also realize how much rationalizing you're doing.

4) Economic mobility isn't a theory. It's established fact in this country. It works like this: Go to school, make good grades, go to work, work hard, be a conscientious employee, put more into the job than what's expected, continually improve your skills, take another job that gives you more money and opportunity, have enough money saved to offset a reverse, network, and hone your people skills. Do this pretty consistently over the course of your life, and you'll do quite well.

5) Ignore how the neighbors and your family are doing in terms of material possession. If they're rich, you're indulging in envy. But they very well may be leveraged to their eyeballs. If you match them iPod for iPod, then you might be following them right over the cliff.

So quit your whining and get busy. Analyze your current behavior and do something about it. Stop listening to your id and start listening to your superego. And quit expecting the government to bail you out. It's not my fault than you blew your money like a pimp with a week to live.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,684 posts, read 49,455,573 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Boy, you said a mouthful there. Basically these people blew their money and behaved like improvident spendthrifts over the years, and now they want to be the poster children for the cruel economy. Personally, I'm really tired of listening to people clamoring for more government intervention in the economy. Especially when my wife and I (two solidly middle-class individuals) have done all the right things and are looking at retiring in our mid-50s.

I haven't visited this thread in several weeks, and I see the whiners have been at it full force. So let's try this again:

1) EVERYBODY can retire by age 65 if they actually manage their lives with a semblance of common sense during their working lives.

2) What is a "semblance of common sense"? Saving 10% of their earnings and sticking it in an IRA or other safe investments. Not borrowing money on credit cards to buy things you don't need. And if you've accumulated $30k-$40k in credit card debt over the years, then that means you've almost certainly blown the money on the shiniest, latest, and greatest, rather than have the discipline to do without.

3) If you can't save 10% of your salary, then you are doing something fundamentally wrong in your life. Do yourself a big fat favor right now and list everything you've spent your money on in the past month, from movie tickets to that daily cuppa from Starbucks. You'll be shocked at how much money you allowed to slip through your fingers. And you'll also realize how much rationalizing you're doing.

4) Economic mobility isn't a theory. It's established fact in this country. It works like this: Go to school, make good grades, go to work, work hard, be a conscientious employee, put more into the job than what's expected, continually improve your skills, take another job that gives you more money and opportunity, have enough money saved to offset a reverse, network, and hone your people skills. Do this pretty consistently over the course of your life, and you'll do quite well.

5) Ignore how the neighbors and your family are doing in terms of material possession. If they're rich, you're indulging in envy. But they very well may be leveraged to their eyeballs. If you match them iPod for iPod, then you might be following them right over the cliff.

So quit your whining and get busy. Analyze your current behavior and do something about it. Stop listening to your id and start listening to your superego. And quit expecting the government to bail you out. It's not my fault than you blew your money like a pimp with a week to live.
Well said.

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Old 03-26-2008, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Branson Area
880 posts, read 2,585,494 times
Reputation: 710
Default Some will, some won't

My folks are part of the "Greatest Generation" and didn't "retire" 100%. They continued to work, at least part-time, until they were into their 80's. Some people save for retirement, some don't. Some can, some can't. Some are lucky, some are hit by circumstances beyond their control. There is no black and white answer on this one.

I'm part of the baby-boomer generation and while we didn't scrimp and save the first half of our marriage, we sure did the last 18 years we worked. We saved my paycheck, invested everything we could in IRA and/or 401K's. We didn't buy new furniture, new cars, flashy vacations, etc. We were also lucky in that we were working for a "Boom" company during the dot-com boom and didn't fall into the trap of buying bigger and better just 'cause on paper we had more $$. We sold company stock, invested in the markets (conservatively and broadly).

Gas and fuel prices have gone up since I was young (25 cents/gal for gas when I was a kid). Relatively speaking gas hasn't gone up any more, and maybe less, than houses (in many areas), food, clothing, etc. But we feel it more now 'cause the fuel thing happened so fast. The rest have gone up over time. Our kids, like us, and our parents, will adjust accordingly. Salaries will adjust, spending adjusts. What is hard is that when your retired, the increasing costs erode income that isn't adjustable for most people. You may plan for a certain income in retirement with say a 3% increase each year, but when your basic costs go up, say 20%, your not in a postion to adjust accordingly without jeopordizing (sp?) your retirement savings. So you go back to work...part time or full time. Or you adjust your spending downward.

But all in all, if people have a plan, save their $$, and really want to find a way to retire they will. The biggest thing I have seen with our friends is lack of a plan. They would rather spend today and "hope" everything will be ok in the future.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:37 PM
GLS
 
1,985 posts, read 4,847,602 times
Reputation: 2408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Freddy View Post
The problem isn't what the payment consists of, it's how much of it is required.

A bill for several tons of goat cheese is no easier to pay than a bill for several thousand dollars.
No disrespect intended, but even conceptualizing "several tons of goat cheese" may explain the epithet, "Fat Freddy".
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Old 03-27-2008, 04:17 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,140,430 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I see the whiners have been at it full force. So let's try this again:
quit your whining .
The only thing worse than whining is gloating...You got lucky. Good for you. Not everyone has been as fortunate.
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