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Old 03-27-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,703 posts, read 49,495,894 times
Reputation: 19151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
I think it is both luck and skill. I think the point is that there are people who have worked hard and not been spendthrifts but still can't manage to win at the life game. Some bristle at the financial "winners" who then sanctimoniously disparage anyone else who hasn't managed to win at the life finances game and blame it all on them.
Fair enough.



Quote:
...Forest, from what you have written, one could make a case that you aren't actually fully retired but rather changed careers to landlording and farming with the military pension to help bolster the incomes from these other sources. BB with his 9 mil has done well for himself but not everyone can do the same. It simply isn't possible.
I did most of my 'landlording' while still on active duty. I used the built equity from rental properties to purchase our retirement home. Currently I reside three states away from my only remaining apartment building. It is managed by a tenant. I have yet to make any profit from farming. Many retirees have a pension.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,838,249 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
I think it is both luck and skill. I think the point is that there are people who have worked hard and not been spendthrifts but still can't manage to win at the life game. Some bristle at the financial "winners" who then sanctimoniously disparage anyone else who hasn't managed to win at the life finances game and blame it all on them.

From what I have seen and studied, there are lots of things people can do to live within their means. But being able to save money on top of that to the extent of accumulating enough to afford a very comfortable and secure retirement may not be possible. Saying oh, I did it so anyone can do it is not really true for everyone. Some people are spendthrifts and made bad choices, but there are others who didn't have much choice or things happened outside of their control to destroy their budgets.

Every get rich scheme depends on the winners doing better than most people. As soon as the method becomes commonplace, the wealth delta starts to disappear. Some methods that worked well in the past won't work in today's economy.

There has never in the history of the universe ever been an economic system that universally made everyone well off. Note what actually happens in communist systems that are theoretically supposed to do that - a few are very well off while the masses do rather poorly. Historically, the most stable societies have economic systems that create a large middle class with fail-safe structures for poor people so they don't get desperate and rebel.

Just blaming people carte blanche for their misfortunes is a pat answer without actual data to back it up. It becomes a worrisome social problem when the numbers of people who fail to reach or stay middle class add up to a substantial portion of the population.

Forest, from what you have written, one could make a case that you aren't actually fully retired but rather changed careers to landlording and farming with the military pension to help bolster the incomes from these other sources. BB with his 9 mil has done well for himself but not everyone can do the same. It simply isn't possible.
Beautifully thought out and beautifully stated, Tesaje. These are the things I wish I had said--kinda regretting getting cranky earlier. While I do think most people can work out a way to retire (one way or another) it is true that not every retirement will be as comfortable as people would like, and it is also true that some people won't be able to make it work.

I got annoyed the other day by the claim that people can't escape from the socioeconomic status of their parents... but that was no excuse to get so annoyed. I guess it just pushed my buttons because it brought back all the pain and arguments I went through decades ago. It's a pet peeve--I really hate excuses like that. Suddenly I felt like I was 22 again and having endless arguments with my roommates and ex-husband and even my parents, all of whom seemed to "know" I was being a fool for trying to go to college, and even stupider for wanting to start a business. I proved them wrong but 30 years later what does it matter-- the same old bigotry is floating around and people still "know" that people like me can't succeed.

Stupid, I know, when I think about how this got me annoyed yesterday. Usually it makes me laugh but for some reason it was annoying this time and that made me lash out. I'm sorry.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 644,910 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
I think it is both luck and skill. I think the point is that there are people who have worked hard and not been spendthrifts but still can't manage to win at the life game. Some bristle at the financial "winners" who then sanctimoniously disparage anyone else who hasn't managed to win at the life finances game and blame it all on them.

From what I have seen and studied, there are lots of things people can do to live within their means. But being able to save money on top of that to the extent of accumulating enough to afford a very comfortable and secure retirement may not be possible. Saying oh, I did it so anyone can do it is not really true for everyone. Some people are spendthrifts and made bad choices, but there are others who didn't have much choice or things happened outside of their control to destroy their budgets.

Every get rich scheme depends on the winners doing better than most people. As soon as the method becomes commonplace, the wealth delta starts to disappear. Some methods that worked well in the past won't work in today's economy.

There has never in the history of the universe ever been an economic system that universally made everyone well off. Note what actually happens in communist systems that are theoretically supposed to do that - a few are very well off while the masses do rather poorly. Historically, the most stable societies have economic systems that create a large middle class with fail-safe structures for poor people so they don't get desperate and rebel.

Just blaming people carte blanche for their misfortunes is a pat answer without actual data to back it up. It becomes a worrisome social problem when the numbers of people who fail to reach or stay middle class add up to a substantial portion of the population.

Forest, from what you have written, one could make a case that you aren't actually fully retired but rather changed careers to landlording and farming with the military pension to help bolster the incomes from these other sources. BB with his 9 mil has done well for himself but not everyone can do the same. It simply isn't possible.
I respectfully disagree. There's an old adage, "What one man can do, so can another." I didn't come from a well-to-do background, wasn't terribly blessed in the intelligence department (had lots of common street smarts though), had no great mentor, etc. I just decided that I wanted to do certain things that I thought I would be good at. I spent lots of time learning my business - often through very expensive mistakes. Turns out I was good at them. Not great, but good enough. I've been disciplined about saving, learned about investing rather than sitting on the sofa eating Cheesy-Poofs, and lo and behold, have ended up quite well off. Anyone can do it.
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Old 03-27-2008, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 644,910 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
Beautifully thought out and beautifully stated, Tesaje. These are the things I wish I had said--kinda regretting getting cranky earlier. While I do think most people can work out a way to retire (one way or another) it is true that not every retirement will be as comfortable as people would like, and it is also true that some people won't be able to make it work.

I got annoyed the other day by the claim that people can't escape from the socioeconomic status of their parents... but that was no excuse to get so annoyed. I guess it just pushed my buttons because it brought back all the pain and arguments I went through decades ago. It's a pet peeve--I really hate excuses like that. Suddenly I felt like I was 22 again and having endless arguments with my roommates and ex-husband and even my parents, all of whom seemed to "know" I was being a fool for trying to go to college, and even stupider for wanting to start a business. I proved them wrong but 30 years later what does it matter-- the same old bigotry is floating around and people still "know" that people like me can't succeed.

Stupid, I know, when I think about how this got me annoyed yesterday. Usually it makes me laugh but for some reason it was annoying this time and that made me lash out. I'm sorry.
Why did you listen to them? With all due respect, it sounds like you let them talk you out of the success you deserved. You can succeed. Anyone can. Thomas Edison attempted to create the light bulb about 5,000 times before he succeeded. He never said he had failed, he simply said he now knew about 4,999 ways that didn't work! Don't ever let anyone talk you out of the life you are meant to have - you are only cheating yourself if you do! (And giving them the satisfaction of being right!)
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Old 03-27-2008, 04:11 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,985 times
Reputation: 117
Retiring is going to be tough for most of americans. I found that 1 million dollars today to last another 30 plus years is to only take $3k per month taking inflation into consideration (and if the investment remains sound). Wow! So, I need to make sure that I have no mortgage.

Did you also know that Social Security was created so that the older pple will retire to make room for the younger generation? One of the problems with SS is how it is calculated. I think 6% of the highest 7 years of earned income. So, this means that Donald Trump, Warren Buffet SS is what!!!! You get my point?
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,838,249 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
Why did you listen to them? With all due respect, it sounds like you let them talk you out of the success you deserved.
Why would I listen to my husband? My roommates? My parents?

Umm, gee, I dunno--because the people in my life are worth respecting (even the ones I eventually let go)? Because I don't know everything in the world that there is to know? Because I'm human? Because there is a difference between listening to people and letting them influence you...and I am strong enough to follow my own path?

I've never let other people tell me what I can or cannot do... but I deeply believe in listening to people and weighing what they have to say. I think the secret of my success has been listening to a large variety of people. Wisdom comes from all directions.

I can see you don't feel the same way about listening to people. It's obvious-- because you have not been listening to me! And since I'm still feeling cranky, here's my 2 cents for you. You've missed out on a lot if you really believe the secret to success is not listening. Here's what you missed by not listening to me: Over the past few months I have repeatedly talked about overcoming the odds, running a successful business, and accomplishing goals even when the going got tough. I've said plenty of other things worth hearing, too. Otherwise I would not have bothered typing them.

What makes me think you weren't listening to me? Well.... just look at the section you quoted above. You even bothered to boldface it. I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
I proved them wrong

If you had been paying attention, would you really have said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
...it sounds like you let them talk you out of the success you deserved.


But hey, if not listening to people is how you became successful it's ok by me. Whatever floats your boat, as they say. Personally, I'm going to continue listening to people, that's what makes my life rich. Listening to people made me successful in life, and will hopefully give me ideas for having a successful retirement.

Last edited by normie; 03-27-2008 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 644,910 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
There is a difference between listening to people and letting them influence you. I've never let other people tell me what I can or cannot do... but I deeply believe in listening to people and weighing what they have to say. I think the secret of my success has been listening to a large variety of people. Wisdom comes from all directions.

I can see you don't feel the same way about listening to people. It's obvious-- because you have not spent one moment of your time listening to me! Just for the record, here's what you missed: I have repeatedly talked about overcoming the odds, running a successful business, and accomplishing goals even when the going got tough.

In fact, if you had been listening, you would have realized I even noted my success in the section you quoted above--and even boldfaced--

"I proved them wrong"

but instead of paying attention to what I was saying, you chose to chastise me:



Sorry, but even though I agree with your premise it makes it hard to go along with your assertions when you make careless mistakes like that. But hey, maybe we just have different attitudes. Whatever floats your boat, as they say. Personally, I'm going to continue listening to people, that's what makes my life rich. Listening to people made me successful in life, and will hopefully give me ideas for having a successful retirement. I wouldn't bother participating in a forum like this if I wasn't interested in what other people have to say.

Then why did you say that "people still know that people like you can't succeed?" Besides, I wasn't trying to chastise you, but rather to give you a kick in the ass to do whatever it is you want without letting others influence you. Which it sounds like you have let people do over time.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,838,249 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
Then why did you say that "people still know that people like you can't succeed?" Besides, I wasn't trying to chastise you, but rather to give you a kick in the ass to do whatever it is you want without letting others influence you. Which it sounds like you have let people do over time.
Look again, what I said was:

"the same old bigotry is floating around and people still "know" that people like me can't succeed."

Putting little quotes around a word change the meaning quite a bit. Quotes indicate people are saying something is true when it obviously isn't. Like saying he was seen walking down the street with his "wife"

or how 'bout this one: he skipped work today because he "had the flu."

If you had actually listened to what I was saying, you would have realized I am frustrated that despite the fact I have indeed been very successful, many people continue to think that people who come from poor neighborhoods cannot succeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker View Post
Besides, I wasn't trying to chastise you, but rather to give you a kick in the ass to do whatever it is you want without letting others influence you. Which it sounds like you have let people do over time.
You are obviously still not listening. Sigh.
I can only assume you are doing this to be obnoxious ... and people who are deliberately obnoxious are the one group of people I do stop listening to. See ya.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 644,910 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
Look again, what I said was:

"the same old bigotry is floating around and people still "know" that people like me can't succeed."

Putting little quotes around a word change the meaning quite a bit. Quotes indicate people are saying something is true when it obviously isn't. Like saying he was seen walking down the street with his "wife"

or how 'bout this one: he skipped work today because he "had the flu."

If you had actually listened to what I was saying, you would have realized I am frustrated that despite the fact I have indeed been very successful, many people continue to think that people who come from poor neighborhoods cannot succeed.



You are obviously still not listening. Sigh.
I can only assume you are doing this to be obnoxious ... and people who are deliberately obnoxious are the one group of people I do stop listening to. See ya.

I can see why you are not successful - you think you know everything. You sound like the typical angry divorced woman. If you are, in fact, successful, then why do you feel frustrated?
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:05 PM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,155,288 times
Reputation: 9520
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
One of the problems with SS is how it is calculated. I think 6% of the highest 7 years of earned income. So, this means that Donald Trump, Warren Buffet SS is what!!!! You get my point?
That's not the case any longer. Now they average your best 35 years of income. Also, they don't credit you for any more than the ceiling ammount. This year for example it's about $97000(?). So Trump's SS won't be any more than mine, about $2200 mo in today's money. He and I are both maxed out. A person free of debt could do on $2200 except for health care costs. That's the killer.
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