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Old 03-28-2008, 11:56 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,053,898 times
Reputation: 2141

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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
The book: "The Millionaire Nextdoor" polls a lot of affluent households, and shows interesting trends. It seems to be thought among the affluent that giving children a large trust fund sets them up for defeat in life.
Exactly my thought and what I have read too.

I had a distant cousin who invented something and made a fortune from it. when he died, the children behaved in an atrocious manner squabbling over the fortune and his wife ran off afraid for her life from them. Ick.

No, I'm happy with what I have earned on my own. I owe no one and I am mistress of my own life.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:24 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,710 times
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I didn't even calculate SS when I made my retirement plan. I need to count on me and only me. I think this is a better plan. I know the reality of my situation in regards to retiring if I don't want to work at Wal-Mart at 70. I had to change my job focus "today" and how much I earn to get to where I want to be. This did not happen overnight.

All I know is that I need at least $?mill at the age of 50 (this was a shock) and have my mortgage paid off. I didn't want to change my current lifestyle so I had to make the adjustment. Unfortunalty, I think everyone should get to the reality of the retirement plan and need to adjust to the plan. It wasn't easy, but the reality that I had to face.

I think for most americans they are going to fail. This is so sad, but their own fault for not planning ahead of time. For example if you have credit debt, pay that off and don't incur anymore. Buy used cars and keep them. What status do you have when you are 70 and still have to be working?
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:28 PM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,024,986 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Nothing absurd about it. And the only myopia is failing to plan, something you cannot seem to admit.

You're absolutely right about one thing. We're not given the same opportunities. But actually planning ahead has a way of helping you avoid most of those bumps in the road....

Health problems? Yeah, granted. Even then, supplemental health insurance is a sensible precaution. My wife and I have a policy. Do you?

Divorces. Hey, who says that the application of hard work and common sense doesn't apply to marriages as well?

Layoffs. Why do you think you save money? My wife and I both lost our jobs eight years ago at the same time, and we have managed to claw our way to this point since then. So there goes that theory of yours.

Kids. We have three, thanks. However, our kids don't walk around with a continuous sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve the latest and greatest of everything, including $2000 summer camps, iPods and $200 blue jeans.

Market collapses. Invest prudently, diversify your holdings, and stock market drops are nowhere close to fatal. My mutual funds have done quite well over the past 7 years, all because I did my homework initially on performance and kept reassessing results. For example, I held a lot of bank stocks until a year and a half ago. Then I looked at the oncoming credit problems and bailed.

Contract cancellations and lawsuits. I own my own business, thanks. I know all about these. I never stop pitching new business, which insulates me from client whimsy, and I've always fulfilled my client requirements to the letter. Plus I have some pretty good insurance, both E&O and general business.

In short, you haven't refuted my argument that being conservative and prudent with your money makes retirement entirely possible--And my wife and I stood at the brink of financial calamity seven years ago, and dug our way out to financial security in the same amount of time.
You still won't admit that SOME people will be in situations that will make it impossible to retire. It just depends on what happens, and when it happens.

We understand that someone who works hard to save and invest is doing themselves a great service. But, you don't seem to realize that we don't know WHAT will happen to us in the future. Anything goes. It can all go in an instant.

So, if someone does well, like you, great! If someone doesn't, don't judge them for their own situations, which may be different from yours. And, it is not "whining" or "wallowing" - we're just discussing the problems of retirement for our fellow citizens.

If you really believe that ANYONE can do EXACTLY what you did, and be fine in retirement, you're dreamin'. I'm glad you think so much of the rest of us, though - that whatever situation we're in, we'll have no problem as long as we save and invest like you. How much money do you put away a month? I'm going to give it a go. I only have $400/month to spend, so I hope it doesn't go over that.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:55 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,710 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
I have read many opinions on here. I have heard people saying they should worry about themselves and not their children. I concur to a certain point. One of the things that has created wealth for many families in our country is the concept of inter generational wealth or legacy money. Should it not be a goal to leave a tidy sum for you children and grand children to build on? Don't you wish you had inherited a tidy sum? If your parent died prior to retirement did they have a good size term life insurance policy to help you? It does and has worked for many families.
I heard Suze Orman say that we should take care of ourselves first and children second. Because if we don't have the retirement we WILL be aksing for the money / hlep later when we get older. College avg tuition and dorm for a decent college $45k this does not take into account the additional $12k cash that need to come elsewhere for gas, food and etc. I figured out a plan for loans, grants, scholarships.

And, you will leave your kids and granchildren later if you save enough and live off the income of your investment. You need to talk to a financail advisor about this. Every bank has one for free.

Will for my child, have an attorney (power of attorney) with specific outlines of the cash when and how much. YOu can have much more control than you think after you are dead.

Short answers, but you control some of these things.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:11 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,710 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
You still won't admit that SOME people will be in situations that will make it impossible to retire. It just depends on what happens, and when it happens.

We understand that someone who works hard to save and invest is doing themselves a great service. But, you don't seem to realize that we don't know WHAT will happen to us in the future. Anything goes. It can all go in an instant.

So, if someone does well, like you, great! If someone doesn't, don't judge them for their own situations, which may be different from yours. And, it is not "whining" or "wallowing" - we're just discussing the problems of retirement for our fellow citizens.

If you really believe that ANYONE can do EXACTLY what you did, and be fine in retirement, you're dreamin'. I'm glad you think so much of the rest of us, though - that whatever situation we're in, we'll have no problem as long as we save and invest like you. How much money do you put away a month? I'm going to give it a go. I only have $400/month to spend, so I hope it doesn't go over that.
This does sound like excuses and whining. Unfortunatly life situations can happen to anyone, but for most of us we will be fine. Get a second job if you have too. Change your career. There is a solution.

$400, depends on your age now, other investments (401k) and when you want to retire. I know that I have to pay off my home and I can't incur any debt. I pay cash for my cars used. I have no credit card debt. This was not the case in my earlier years when I was stupid. I learned from my own lessons.

Good luck, I know this is hard.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:00 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,745,065 times
Reputation: 46028
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
You still won't admit that SOME people will be in situations that will make it impossible to retire. It just depends on what happens, and when it happens.

We understand that someone who works hard to save and invest is doing themselves a great service. But, you don't seem to realize that we don't know WHAT will happen to us in the future. Anything goes. It can all go in an instant.

So, if someone does well, like you, great! If someone doesn't, don't judge them for their own situations, which may be different from yours. And, it is not "whining" or "wallowing" - we're just discussing the problems of retirement for our fellow citizens.

If you really believe that ANYONE can do EXACTLY what you did, and be fine in retirement, you're dreamin'. I'm glad you think so much of the rest of us, though - that whatever situation we're in, we'll have no problem as long as we save and invest like you. How much money do you put away a month? I'm going to give it a go. I only have $400/month to spend, so I hope it doesn't go over that.
Well, given that the original assumption of the thread is that retirement will soon be impossible for all but the überrich, my response is much more on target than yours. No doubt that there are the occasional people who have bad breaks in life. But for the vast majority, it's a matter of steady accumulation of assets, paying careful attention to your money every month, and not blowing it. And, quite frankly, if you make a good salary, don't have catastrophic health issues that are far beyond your health insurance coverage, and stick a little back every month, then yeah, you're going to do all right. Considering that average household wealth, indexed for inflation, remains at all-time highs (even after the recent drop in home values in some markets), there's really no excuse.

Oh, and I worked a second job for several years to both help dig ourselves out of a financial hole and to put money back. In my second job, every paycheck was endorsed over to either our loans or our investments. That's how we made it. It wasn't dumb luck on our part. It was a willing to make the necessary sacrifices.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:33 PM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,053,898 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
And, quite frankly, if you make a good salary, don't have catastrophic health issues that are far beyond your health insurance coverage, and stick a little back every month, then yeah, you're going to do all right.
With this stipulation, then yes, you can save enough for retirement. But only if you buck the general advice to spend, spend, spend, and mortgage yourself to the hilt. The key being that you have a good salary AND have some sense.

What some of us have been saying is that for those who never can earn a good salary, and have a disaster or two that is out of their control, it is probably impossible. My mother was one such. She was anything but a spendthrift and worked very hard. Between sexism that depressed her salary and some 20 odd years out of the workforce while she had young children, then having to earn her own living on her own, saving was an impossibility. She put our needs first but didn't waste money on us either. There just wasn't a lot. Yet she fed us extremely healthy food that kept us out of the doctor's office for the most part. We worked for our own money and I bought all my own clothes from the time I was 13.

I think we've been talking past each other.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:08 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,710 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
With this stipulation, then yes, you can save enough for retirement. But only if you buck the general advice to spend, spend, spend, and mortgage yourself to the hilt. The key being that you have a good salary AND have some sense.

What some of us have been saying is that for those who never can earn a good salary, and have a disaster or two that is out of their control, it is probably impossible. My mother was one such. She was anything but a spendthrift and worked very hard. Between sexism that depressed her salary and some 20 odd years out of the workforce while she had young children, then having to earn her own living on her own, saving was an impossibility. She put our needs first but didn't waste money on us either. There just wasn't a lot. Yet she fed us extremely healthy food that kept us out of the doctor's office for the most part. We worked for our own money and I bought all my own clothes from the time I was 13.

I think we've been talking past each other.
But you are not your mother! Why didn't you go to school? Get a good trade like nursing that has high demand? Your attitude is very negative. If you think you can't you won't.

Look I was very poor when I was growing up. I has used clothes most of my life. But this is america which so many immigrants have taken full advantage of. I have also had many life tribualtions as an adult...but I am okay w/o a husband or anyone giving me "any" money.

I would check your attitude first if you really want to get ahead. Hang around those that you want to be like. It can be done.

This thread might be a good start. Get educated, talk to your bankers, look for a second job. My sister and I know many others that went back to school in their late 30 and 40's...you have many options. But if you don't want to do the work to do what it takes then you can blame only yourself.

I say this with every kindness to be helpful.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:45 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 12,053,898 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
But you are not your mother! Why didn't you go to school? Get a good trade like nursing that has high demand? Your attitude is very negative. If you think you can't you won't.

Look I was very poor when I was growing up. I has used clothes most of my life. But this is america which so many immigrants have taken full advantage of. I have also had many life tribualtions as an adult...but I am okay w/o a husband or anyone giving me "any" money.

I would check your attitude first if you really want to get ahead. Hang around those that you want to be like. It can be done.

This thread might be a good start. Get educated, talk to your bankers, look for a second job. My sister and I know many others that went back to school in their late 30 and 40's...you have many options. But if you don't want to do the work to do what it takes then you can blame only yourself.

I say this with every kindness to be helpful.
Wow! What sanctimonious assumptions. Did I ever say I was in trouble? I did go to school and made sacrifices to do so. I've done quite well for myself, thank you very much and much better than a nurse would have. I will be able to retire comfortably and do so at a youngish 55.

The difference between you and me is that I can see beyond my own nose and have compassion for people who either don't have my capabilities or circumstances.

Oh, and my mother went to college too.

Try reading comprehension. The point I've been making is that there are people who work very hard, are frugal, but don't make a good salary and have some life disasters beyond their control and can't get ahead. I don't have sympathy for those who make lots of money and spend it all, then wonder where it all went.

The economy is not one size fits all and not everyone can win at the money game. It has never happened and it never will. There may be more opportunity here, but not everyone can get rich. When the numbers of people who get into trouble for any reason get large, the whole economy gets dragged down and that affects all of us.
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:43 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,142,944 times
Reputation: 9518
It irks me that those who have been blessed with the right combination of circumstances smugly conclude that if everyone was as smart as they imagine that they are then those too would be able to retire comfortably.

'Tain't necessarily so...

"The race doesn't always go to the swift, the battle to the strong, or wealth and honor to the wise. Time and chance happen to them all." (from the Bible).

Those assuming that people have only their own laziness or stupidity to blame for not becoming wealthy don't seem to know much about real life.
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