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Old 04-02-2008, 10:02 AM
 
16,092 posts, read 36,576,539 times
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Well I'm just hoping someone can learn from me, as I learned from my father. It doesn't always work out. I have two degrees but not really the career to go with them. So I wasn't lucky in that, but buying the rentals had made up for it...

And thanks for the kind words, beekeeper.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,825,081 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Neither of us were trust-fund babies.

To us; we see what we have done as: making sacrifices; however for whatever reason others read this and to their ears they hear gloating.
People who are unhappy with their own situation tend to lash out with accusations like that.

I think many people reading these posts heard what you were trying to say. I know I did--I thought you gave some great advice, too. Some people think that giving advice is the same thing as gloating. Then they can't figure out why they can't find any good advice. As the fortune cookie says "when the student is ready the teacher appears."

I think people learn more from reading about positive experiences... but they learn from the bad experiences, too. You can learn a lot from an example of how not to do things.

If there's one lesson I hope people are absorbing, it's that life is going to throw you some curve balls. You can't control life, but you can predict something bad is bound to happen... and make contingency plans. Everyone should plan on having a few financial emergencies. Don't complain about how you didn't plan to have a serious illness--that should be part of everyone's plan! Serious illness happens to everyone, especially as we get older. I'm not that old, but I've already had to deal with breast cancer, diabetes, and vision problems. Within the last year I've developed balance problems (I tend to fall more easily and I slip on the ice in the winter). Illness is part of life, expect it.

I hope our readers realize that the biggest mistake is to assume you'll always work. That's just not realistic. Don't think you don't need a retirement plan because you will never get sick, or that you'll always have a job. Long periods of unemployment happen to most of us sooner or later--plan for it before the emergency happens and yes, it will be possible for you to retire. IMO.

Which brings us back to the original question... yes, I do believe retirement is possible for most people. Most people, not everyone. Sadly, as it has been throughout history, some people will be scr*wed. Very often, it's the people who didn't plan for emergencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Perhaps as optimists, we see the growing Net Worth and future financial stability and we fail to focus on the 'bad'. Perhaps it is our 'rose-coloured' glasses that allows us to prosper, while so many around us obviously are wailing in despair.
...and this is the other lesson! Insist upon wearing "rose colored glasses." I think you are right, it is attitude more than anything else that allows us to prosper.

It's very hard for some people to believe this. But it's true.

Last edited by normie; 04-02-2008 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,825,081 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
Well I'm just hoping someone can learn from me, as I learned from my father. It doesn't always work out. I have two degrees but not really the career to go with them. So I wasn't lucky in that, but buying the rentals had made up for it...

And thanks for the kind words, beekeeper.
I think you've done well. Very few people have everything work out, but you were able to find a way to succeed anyway.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:26 PM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,024,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normie View Post
Actually, I don't think it's at all rare for people to have financial difficulties--in this economy, or in any economy. As I noted before, I certainly had financial difficulties, as did most people I know. But if the solution that worked for me does not appeal to you, that's cool. There are many pathways to success. I hope you find yours.
I have success - what I'm talking about is the issues of retirement, and not necessarily about ME. What I object to is that some people don't seem to understand that it just DEPENDS on individual circumstances.

When I write in here, I am talking about ALL citizens - not just me. I'm talking in general, and my situation is WAY better than others', although I have issues. I was just trying to converse about the difficulties people have today, because from what I have seen, retirement is not what it used to be, and many people are in trouble. I thought we all knew that - it's been all over the news for a few years.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Ocean Shores, WA
5,081 posts, read 12,973,025 times
Reputation: 10648
I never cared much for working to make some one, or some corporation, rich. And did as little of it as I could.

Of course I never had much money, but I learned how to live the way I wanted without it.

When I retired, I just continued on with my regular life doing what made me happy just as I always had.

I have little sympathy for my fellow retirees who complain that they don't have enough in their IRAs, and 401Ks, and that they need a million dollars just to survive.

We all had the same opportunity to live life according to whatever drummer we chose to follow. Unfortunately, many of us chose to follow the Gods of Consumption and Acquisition and became materialistic zombies.

And we all know that the Zombies never win in the end.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,400 posts, read 25,825,081 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Freddy View Post
I never cared much for working to make some one, or some corporation, rich. And did as little of it as I could.

Of course I never had much money, but I learned how to live the way I wanted without it.

When I retired, I just continued on with my regular life doing what made me happy just as I always had.

I have little sympathy for my fellow retirees who complain that they don't have enough in their IRAs, and 401Ks, and that they need a million dollars just to survive.

We all had the same opportunity to live life according to whatever drummer we chose to follow. Unfortunately, many of us chose to follow the Gods of Consumption and Acquisition and became materialistic zombies.

And we all know that the Zombies never win in the end.
Great post. If you ever write The Book of Fat Freddy's Wisdom please let me know. I want to buy a copy!!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,687 posts, read 33,690,741 times
Reputation: 51892
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
Well, the kids are interested in scientific research (I'm a lab manager), and this is the best place to do it - in fact, our institution is supposedly the best place in the U.S. for research.

But, yes, they are paid little when they begin - less than me, and I have only a B.A. - they are PhD's. But, they're not going to find something better in a cheaper area, unless they want to do something else, which they don't. They're doing something they love. And, they work long hours. Eventually, they may become world-renowned scientists, like our boss and make decent money. Anyone starting out is going to make less money than someone with years of experience, in any field.

My personal idea is that there should be affordable housing for ALL, no matter your salary. But, we all have to pay the same rent whether we make $20K or $100K. As they say, "we all buy the same loaf of bread" - the costs do not go down because you don't make good money. But, to me, housing should always be available at a reasonable cost. I guess that's a radical idea. I always thought that we could have housing for those who make $200K, those who make $50K, those who make $20K, etc. But, unless you are really poor and get help, you cannot find housing for a reasonable cost.

And, most jobs in the U.S. do not pay all that well - the median household income is only $45K - so half of households make even less. We can't all be CEO's. And, it takes time in a career to move up and make better money. And, money today does not buy as much as money in the past. Our buying power has decreased for decades. As I said, when I got out of college making MINIMUM wage, I had a nice apartment with one roommate. Can't do that today. So, obviously, things have changed.
I live in a science town. There is a big national laboratory in my town and a ton of civilian contractors in science-related businesses around town, to go along with it. It's fairly cheap/affordable to rent in my town. You can get a 2 bedroom apartment in this town, in a decent building for $600 --- with a single roommate that would be $300 for rent. High end 2 bedroom/2 bathroom apartments go for $900. With a single roommate, that would be $450 for rent. For their rent to be 1/4 or 25% of their gross salary, and with a single roommate, their salary would have to be in the range of $1200 - $1800 per month or $14,400 - $21,600 per year. If they make more, they should be doing well. But, I'm guessing they don't want to live here for whatever reason. Again, it's a matter of choice.
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:52 PM
 
1,861 posts, read 3,024,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I live in a science town. There is a big national laboratory in my town and a ton of civilian contractors in science-related businesses around town, to go along with it. It's fairly cheap/affordable to rent in my town. You can get a 2 bedroom apartment in this town, in a decent building for $600 --- with a single roommate that would be $300 for rent. High end 2 bedroom/2 bathroom apartments go for $900. With a single roommate, that would be $450 for rent. For their rent to be 1/4 or 25% of their gross salary, and with a single roommate, their salary would have to be in the range of $1200 - $1800 per month or $14,400 - $21,600 per year. If they make more, they should be doing well. But, I'm guessing they don't want to live here for whatever reason. Again, it's a matter of choice.
Well, lots of people come here to work with my boss, from all over the world. It's a big deal to get into his lab. I guess these scientists will go anywhere, and suffer anything for their "craft".

Not everyone can move just for money reasons - there's work that is important to their career, maybe they have family in the area and would be miserable moving, not to mention it's very expensive to move. Sometimes, it's because someone can't sell their house - especially in this market. So, we take what we can't control, and add that to what we CAN, and see what we can do.
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Old 04-02-2008, 03:16 PM
 
402 posts, read 937,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Yes.

My Dw studied household economics, attended college and got her accounting degree.

We both took IRS courses on tax filing and tax planning. We learned to itemize our taxes, and we lowered our tax obligation to zero. Saving that portion of our income, which had previously gone to taxes; to now remain in our pockets, to allow greater investing.

We have raised five children, at my peak income me salary was $65k. On that set of economics we bought and collected apartment buildings, as our primary investment vehicle.



In our nation today; while "Most people are struggling just to make a good wage", there are also thousands of households who are Net Worth accumulators. These households are working blue collars jobs, or working as self-employed small businesses. They are supporting children, and they are gaining Net Worth each year. Each year in America thousands of middle-class households build Net Worths of greater than $1million, many of these same households have annual salaries in the $40k - $65k range.




Sigh

I do not "associate with a higher-wage crowd".

I associate with a higher-attitude crowd.

I have earned $45k/year, and when I was earning that level of income, I was supporting a family, and I bought our first apartment building.

I admit that during the later third of my career, my wage did go up, I peaked at around $65k for a few years right before my retirement.

So if that is your higher-wage crowd, than so be it.

Today in our retirement, most of our associates have no pensions, are still working, and these household incomes hover around half of the national median household income.
I wanted to thank forest bookeeper. You are informing many of us on how to built net worth. BTW, based on your previous post of using residential rentals as tax sheltering vehicle. I just left my CPA to discuss this with him. The depreciation while good I could not use because my income is higher than six figures. In other words, with your income of $65k the depreciation applies but not for me. (no wonder I asked this question from you!) The other factor that I learned was that when I finally apply my depreciation I will not have to pay the capital tax gains when I sell the property where you would. So, apples and oranges, but I learned many other tips from my CPA about how to avoid paying the capital gains on the property upto $250k from this simple comment you made.

I think that pple could argue with you..it's unfortunate because there are so many ways that pple could take advantages of increasing their net worth.

The best advice that you gave is that no matter the income....save, not spend money on things like cars loans, TV's and other household expenses...and buy a buy a duplex live in one and rent out the other side and start creating fianacial freedom by understanding tax laws and how to take advantage of them. I make a decent living and not being self-emplyed so I can't take as many tax advantages as pple that make less than $100 and if you get a raise don't raise you standard of living rather save. If you are patient and can save 20% of down payment on rental homes it makes a lot of sense. Good job forest bookeeper on your personal success.

I just want to note that while I do okay...I personally buy used cars (keep them at least 8 years) in cash, I buy everything in cash...in other words I live fairly simply. The book millionaire next door gives many examples on hwo the millionaire lives and most of them live in simple homes, non-luxery vehicles and etc.

Sorry to ramble...but i hope that some pple will get the point.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,682 posts, read 49,449,101 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLifes2shrt View Post
I wanted to thank forest bookeeper.
You sir, are welcome.



Quote:
... The depreciation while good I could not use because my income is higher than six figures.
I understand, I am so sorry.



Quote:
... The other factor that I learned was that when I finally apply my depreciation I will not have to pay the capital tax gains when I sell the property where you would. So, apples and oranges, but I learned many other tips from my CPA about how to avoid paying the capital gains on the property upto $250k from this simple comment you made.
Every year you have a great opportunity to play with your 'cost-basis'

When you sale, 'if' your cost-basis was low and you sell high, then you show a large gain, and may possibly have to pay taxes.

Or you have the option each year of managing in a manner where your cost-basis is kept high; so that you maintain control of how much profit you show.

What once was a once-in-a-lifetime exclusion is now an annual exclusion.



Quote:
... I think that pple could argue with you..it's unfortunate because there are so many ways that pple could take advantages of increasing their net worth.
I agree.



Quote:
... The best advice that you gave is that no matter the income .... save, not spend money on things like cars loans, TV's and other household expenses ... and buy a buy a duplex live in one and rent out the other side and start creating fianacial freedom by understanding tax laws and how to take advantage of them. I make a decent living and not being self-emplyed so I can't take as many tax advantages as pple that make less than $100 and if you get a raise don't raise you standard of living rather save. If you are patient and can save 20% of down payment on rental homes it makes a lot of sense.
Yes it does make sense.



Quote:
... The book millionaire next door gives many examples on hwo the millionaire lives and most of them live in simple homes, non-luxery vehicles and etc.

Sorry to ramble...but i hope that some pple will get the point.
We can only hope
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