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Old 12-06-2016, 08:46 PM
 
20,707 posts, read 13,720,547 times
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Found the Vanderbilt quote regarding wedding gifts:

On Silver:


"Never again in her lifetime will a girl find her family and friends in such
a giving and sentimental mood as they are at the time of her wedding. At
no other time will it occur, very probably, to any of them to give her so
much as a silver ash tray. But at the propitious moment they think of sterling
silver as the gift for the bride as part of her dowry as it should be. So, though
she starts married life without as much as a roasting pan, she should be
able to lay her table if it's only a bridge table with the kind of silver
she'll be proud to see on whatever table the future has in store for her.

Right from the start, it is the wife's task to set the tone of the family's
living. And one's everyday living should differ very little from that pre-
sented to guests. We are all strongly influenced by things around us. What
family doesn't deserve the sight of an attractively set dinner table, even
when guests aren't present? "


"A word of warning to the bride who rejects offers of sterling silver when
she marries in favor of household furnishings she feels she needs more.
If you don't get your sterling now, you may never get it. Once a family
starts growing, its constant needs too often absorb funds we thought would
be available for something so basic as sterling. So we "make-do" over the
years with ill-assorted cutlery, deceptively inexpensive because it wears
out. Then come the important little dinners, as a young husband gets up
in the world. We push a chair over a hole in the living room rug, put a
cushion under the pillow of the sofa with a sagging spring, and distract
the guests' attention from the pictureless walls by charming flower arrange-
ments. But there is nothing that can be done about the shabby flatware,
which, somehow, is still with us, even though it was bought just to tide us
through the first year in the tiny apartment. But then, of course, the baby
came. "


On China:


CHINA

formal china China for the formal dinner is fine bone china or porcelain,
never earthenware. Occasionally it is fine glass, antique or modern. One
famous collector of early American glass has a complete set of Diamond
Point, which, of course, could appear proudly on the most formal table.

But even on a formal table with fine china it is not necessary, nor even
usually very attractive, to have a matching set turn up course after course.
The effect may be varied with, say, antique oyster plates in iridescent oyster
white on service plates of blue and white Copeland, followed by the fish
course on lovely, fish-decorated Limoges. The dinner plates could be of
the set, if one owns one, in any of the old or modern fine chinas from
Lowestoft to American Lenox, perhaps in the gold and white wheat pattern.
The salad course for formal dinner is always on a flat plate, perhaps on a
beautiful clear or frosted glass in color, never in individual bowls, and is
always passed on a flat serving dish, with or without cheese and crackers.
In the Victorian era the cheese tray was passed between the dessert and
demitasse.

The main thing to remember, at either a formal meal or an informal
one, is that all the place plates at a single course must match. Serving
dishes and butter plates may be silver or of a fine blending china or glass,
but need not match the set. Of course, butter plates are not used at the
most formal kind of dinner."


What does the Bride provide?


"Today's bride still comes to her husband with a dowry, too the clothes for
her honeymoon, as many nice underthings as she can afford or as are given
her by her family and friends, and as much in the way of household linens
and kitchen equipment as she can manage. If she has a bank account, too,
so much the better. But many a bride, married without fanfare or much
advance preparation, comes to her husband with little more than the clothes
on her back. And the couple acquires what is needed for housekeeping as
the home is furnished, with the husband footing all the bills, if necessary.

But the bride who can afford it still brings with her a lavish dowry of
household linens enough to last through their first few years of marriage,
at least, and geared of course to the way she and her husband will be living.
Here is a basic list for a household trousseau, expansible or contractible, of
course, according to the size of home the couple will have and the scale on
which they will be living and, too, depending on the bride's resources. "


The *ahem* Basic List:


linens 4 sheets for each bed (two top and two bottom, if they are to be hem-
stitched or monogrammed)

2 pairs of blankets for each bed

1 quilt (preferably eiderdown) for each bed

4 pillowcases for each bed

1 bedspread for each bed

6 bath towels for each bathroom

6 matching face towels for each bathroom

6 matching face cloths for each bathroom

1 shower curtain for each bathroom (nylon or plastic are best)

6 guest towels for each bathroom

1 doz. kitchen towels

1 doz. glass towels

1 bathmat to match each set of bathroom towels

1 dinner-size damask or linen tablecloth in white or pale colors, to overlap
table not less than 12", not more than 18", with 1 doz. matching napkins,
dinner-size

3 luncheon sets for daily use with matching napkins

2 tray cloths

2 tray sets with 2 napkins each (one napkin for the tray, one for the toast)

1 doz. cocktail napkins

2 or more sets of practical table mats in straw, cotton, woven matting or
any of the modern, tasteful materials used for the purpose with matching
or contrasting napkins (white luncheon napkins, simply hemmed, go with
everything)

1 quilted mattress cover for each bed
1 blanket cover for each bed



kitchen equipment (Often provided by showers)

4 paring knives flour sifter

1 kitchen carving knife and fork rolling pin

1 canister set ladle

set of mixing bowls funnel

measuring spoons meat grinder

measuring glasses cooking spoons

kitchen scales jelly molds

1 bed tray vegetable parer

1 serving tray kitchen teapot

4 pot holders dish drainer

6 kitchen aprons (if the bride will folding steps

officiate) 1 doz. dish cloths

vegetable bin (if not 2 sets covered icebox dishes

bread box \ built in bread knife

1 dish mop
apple corer

broom and dustpan
colander


1 wet mop

carpet sweeper (vacuum can be a
wedding present or bought
after marriage)

step-on garbage can

kitchen stool

sieve

frying pans (large and small)

griddle

covered kettle

teakettle

custard cups

electric mixer

waffle iron

muffin tins

cake tins

egg beater

electric blender

toaster

cookie sheet

large and small pitchers

bread board

can and bottle openers

chopping bowls (large and small)

spice sets

grater

coffee maker

paper towel holder with towels

glassware and china (These are usually gifts and the bride should state her
needs, when asked. Breakage is very heavy and good glass expensive to
replace. )

1 dozen or more water glasses

2 dozen ice-tea glasses
1 dozen sherry glasses
1 dozen cordial glasses

1 dozen or more wine glasses

1 dozen champagne glasses, solid
stems

2 dozen "old-fashioned" glasses

2 dozen cocktail glasses
2 dozen highball glasses
1 dozen sherbet glasses
1 dozen punch glasses
6 "shot" glasses
12 juice glasses

8 fingerbowls, matching plates (op-
tional)



CHINA FOR A SIMPLE HOUSEHOLD

1 basic set utility china (optional) may be pottery or some one of the
"unbreakable" wares

1 set fine china (optional)

If no matching sets are to be used:

8 breakfast plates

12 breakfast coffee cups (allowing for breakage) not necessarily matching,
but if plates are patterned, cups should be solid color, in blending tone
(for coffee lovers there are jumbo cups)

8 breakfast butter plates

8 egg cups or small dishes for eggs (milk glass reproductions of setting
hens are amusing for the purpose)

8 cereal dishes

1 covered dish for toast (may be in any color that looks well with break-
fast plates, or may be silver or silver plate)

1 small platter for bacon, pancakes, etc. to match or blend

1 small creamer

1 sugar bowl

1 large creamer for cereal

12 dinner plates (if matching set is not used)

12 butter plates in plain china, such as white or bordered Wedgwood,

or in ruby, amber, green, amethyst or clear glass to blend, if matching

set is not used
3 vegetable dishes, may be silver or silver plate or match set
1 small platter, may be silver

1 large well and tree platter, silver or silver plate
1 sauce boat with saucer, or bowl for gravy, may be silver, match set, or

in blending china.
1 ladle for gravy, may be china, silver, or glass
1 bread plate, or tray, may be silver, china, or wood. Basket should be

wicker. Bread board is pleasant for informal meals. (Queen Victoria

used one on her table as an example of thrift bread was cut only as

needed)
Condiment dishes, may be china, fine china, pottery, silver or glass; antique

or modern. Cut glass is back in favor

1 water pitcher, may be silver, modern or antique glass, antique china oi
pottery, such as Majolica or any of the glazed wares for informal use

2 sets of salts and peppers, may be silver but may also be china or glass,
antique or modern. Gourmets like wooden pepper and salt grinders

8 cream soups (optional)

8 soup cups (optional)

8 individual covered casseroles (very useful and may be used, informally,

for soups)
8 thin teacups for afternoon tea
8 tea plates, need not match and can be in any fine, blending china or

in glass
8 demitasses preferably in fine china but may be glass or, for a completely

informal household, pottery
1 teapot

1 coffee pot or coffee maker
1 round serving platter for molded desserts, cakes, and pies, may be china,

glass, sometimes silver
8 dessert plates, may match set or be in any fine china, glass, or, informally.

pottery
8 "English" dessert dishes, deep enough for baked apples, sauced puddings,

etc., though these are often successfully served on a flat plate, as is ice

cream
1 serving bowl for desserts, fruits, occasionally for salads
1 salad bowl with serving fork and spoon the choicest, seasoned wood is

best
6 individual table ash trays. May be silver, pewter, antique or moderi

china, glass, pottery (for informal tables along with shells)







AMY VANDERBILTS COMPLETE BOOK OF ETIQUETTE, 1957


https://archive.org/stream/amyvander...ge/n5/mode/2up

Last edited by BugsyPal; 12-06-2016 at 08:57 PM..
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,873 posts, read 23,136,786 times
Reputation: 37275
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Statement was not meant to be an indictment nor general rule, but rather as one clearly said borne out of one's *OWN* recent experience. Obviously cannot nor did not intend to speak for the world at large.
Is one the Queen?
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 2,069,356 times
Reputation: 9735
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
<Snip for brevity>


Ironically the only households one knows that are still into using all that formal china, silver, crystal and whatever are gay couples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robino1 View Post
<snip for brevity>
I'm not gay but I do like putting together a nice table when we have company for dinner. I think it shows that we care about our guests to take the time and effort to make it more like we are celebrating them coming over for dinner.

<snip>
To the person that left me this anonymous reputation message: why did you feel it was necessary to declare your sexuality? What does that have to do with liking a nice table?

I was answering the above as a point to make that it is not only gays that like a well put together dining experience.

It should never be about whether one is straight or gay. As Bugsy stated later, it just was their own observation in their own experience. Whether or not I agree with even bringing that into the discussion...Not going there. I don't feel like getting into that can of worms in this thread.

It would really help if I had gotten a direct message in private to discuss this instead of an anonymous message to which I cannot respond except in the open forum.

Thank you for the comment anyway?
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:30 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,167,316 times
Reputation: 8459
People should not sell China till they practice selling other stuff. Try selling the Brooklyn Bridge. If you can't sell that, you don't have much of a chance to sell China.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,484 posts, read 43,730,834 times
Reputation: 47257
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Found the Vanderbilt quote regarding wedding gifts:

On Silver:


"Never again in her lifetime will a girl find her family and friends in such
a giving and sentimental mood as they are at the time of her wedding. At
no other time will it occur, very probably, to any of them to give her so
much as a silver ash tray. But at the propitious moment they think of sterling
silver as the gift for the bride as part of her dowry as it should be. So, though
she starts married life without as much as a roasting pan, she should be
able to lay her table if it's only a bridge table with the kind of silver
she'll be proud to see on whatever table the future has in store for her.

Right from the start, it is the wife's task to set the tone of the family's
living. And one's everyday living should differ very little from that pre-
sented to guests. We are all strongly influenced by things around us. What
family doesn't deserve the sight of an attractively set dinner table, even
when guests aren't present? "

AMY VANDERBILTS COMPLETE BOOK OF ETIQUETTE, 1957 ...snip


https://archive.org/stream/amyvander...ge/n5/mode/2up
This is very interesting and could very well be a story in today's Onion. I was 11 years old when this was published and I can assure you this was certainly not standard in even the most luxurious American households (except uber wealth I would imagine).

For one thing houses and especially kitchen were so much smaller than most houses today which means limited storage. Where would "the proper new bride" store all that crap??? Most typical American houses at that time had one family bathroom and maybe a half bath for guests. Not sure when the master bathrooms became pretty standard. That's a lot of towels, sheets and other linens to store.

I did, however, get a good chuckle out of reading this. Wish my beloved mother was still alive. We would have had a good belly laugh reading this together!
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Southern Most New Jersey
1,099 posts, read 816,779 times
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My experience - Best way to get rid of antiques you don't want is to find a reputable auction house that will sell what you have. Make contact with them, start a dialogue. The better ones will occasionally do a theme auction. If your stuff is really nice make an agreement that they will put it in their auction bulletin with a photo. And if your stuff is junk some will take it as well for an outside/box lot auction.

I have sold a lot of antiques this way. Never got what anything was worth but I did not have any headaches either.
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Old 12-07-2016, 08:03 AM
 
2,442 posts, read 2,067,677 times
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Who can afford to buy China, would be a lot of mouths to feed.
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Old 12-07-2016, 08:40 AM
 
673 posts, read 2,027,922 times
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We went on a cruise to Bermuda a few months ago. One of my favourite things about a cruise is dinner time. The lovely white table cloths, the nicely set tables, little individual butter knives, and all the other accoutrements. Waiters all dressed up in nice uniforms, and a Maitre D milling about. Nice wine glasses, and lovely little desserts. I thoroughly enjoy it every evening.

Then there are those on the cruise that never go to the formal dining room for breakfast or dinner. They like to eat in the informal dining area, with a buffet, all you can eat. No waiters, no white table cloths, plastic cups.

People are different - they enjoy it their way. I personally love the formal part of it, and the dress up evenings, others don't care for it.

I don't like paper plates, unless we are picnicking. I never drink out of plastic, unless I have to. I drink my coffee out of lovely bone china mugs, not big chunky ones that have slogans on them.

It's a good thing we don't all have the same taste. Life would be boring.
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Old 12-07-2016, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 2,069,356 times
Reputation: 9735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robino1 View Post
To the person that left me this anonymous reputation message: why did you feel it was necessary to declare your sexuality? What does that have to do with liking a nice table?

I was answering the above as a point to make that it is not only gays that like a well put together dining experience.

It should never be about whether one is straight or gay. As Bugsy stated later, it just was their own observation in their own experience. Whether or not I agree with even bringing that into the discussion...Not going there. I don't feel like getting into that can of worms in this thread.

It would really help if I had gotten a direct message in private to discuss this instead of an anonymous message to which I cannot respond except in the open forum.

Thank you for the comment anyway?

I would like to extend my sincere Thank You to my no longer anonymous commenter.

Air has been cleared and good feelings abound. Since I made it public, I thought I should at least reveal publicly that handshakes (figuratively) have been exchanged.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:01 AM
 
6,464 posts, read 4,063,729 times
Reputation: 16667
Wow, people must have had rollicking drinking parties in those days. Over 12 dozen glasses for various specific adult beverages, just to set up housekeeping?

But, times certainly change. After all, I have an etiquette book from 1963 which states firmly that a host must provide at least one ash tray per room for his guests, and "he shouldn't expect to be asked, by a cigarette smoker, if he objects to smoking, unless he is over 90."
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