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Old 12-11-2016, 08:44 PM
 
26,104 posts, read 28,506,784 times
Reputation: 24809

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Yes...so it's Trump's administration. Which is in favor of Social Security privatization or ending the program totally. And ending Medicare.
The system is going to collapse anyway. It's just a question of when. Prepare now.

 
Old 12-11-2016, 08:50 PM
 
26,104 posts, read 28,506,784 times
Reputation: 24809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris347 View Post
If the Government would do away with the SS Fraud, we would have a lot more in the fund. There are people getting benefits that should not be getting them. People getting disability, yet going out and doing things that are a clear indication of the fact that they can work, instead of scamming the taxpayer.

[mod cut]
Actually, there is not a separate SS fund and never was. The money gets spent as soon as it comes in. That is the real fraud. But disability abuse is definitely a problem. I have a liberal social worker friend (is there any other kind?) who admits she sees it all the time. Not that most people on disability is abusing it, but it's definitely more than just "a few rotten apples" as the apologists claim.
 
Old 12-11-2016, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Close to an earthquake
890 posts, read 677,224 times
Reputation: 2390
It only seems inevitable that means testing for SS benefits, like how Medicare premiums are determined, will one day be a reality. So it's just a matter of where that "mean" is and whether we're above or below the line.

Sure everyone has paid into the SS pot like President-elect Donald Trump, professional athletes, entertainers, etc. I think it'll be politically acceptable to many, including those who are well-off provided they're below the "mean" to have some reduction of SS benefits.

I didn't read everything in the lengthy letter from the SSA Office of Actuary, but I did note that included in the proposal is to tax 100% of SS benefits for those making in excess of certain amounts - believe if was $250,000 for single taxpayers and $500,000 for married taxpayers.

They say that one way to turn a young college student into a Republican is to let him/her get a good-paying job and start paying some hefty income taxes.

Know a way to turn a staunch Republican oldster into a Democrat? Start talking about the stuff included in this proposed legislation.

Am I off on this call?
 
Old 12-12-2016, 04:22 AM
 
48 posts, read 100,709 times
Reputation: 86
No, you are absolutely right.

You want to lose the house and the senate this is what you do. Listen, you can call it insurance or anything else you want but the fact is it is regarded by the american majority as a retirement plan. In the last 30 plus years with the wholesale cutting of pension plans by most corporations and as there never were any for most small businesses, most Americans have nothing left. Ours is a consumer driven economy and these pie in the sky ancedotal, I was able to save a million by not buying anything or eating ramen for 40 years are just that ancedotal bs. They don't apply to but a small percentage of people as simple life in a capitalistic consumer economy doesn't support it.

If everyone saved a large percentage of their income the economy would slow down and your grand gains on your stock portfolio would be nowhere. Look at europe and japan, years and years of stagflation in Japan, and the avg. citizen are not all millionaires even with a much higher savings rate than here. What they do have are much better safety nets but pay a higher rate of taxes. Right now with a million dollars saved you would be lucky to draw 30k a year safely with current and past return rates over the last 15 years without spending principle. In most cities this is just barely surviving for someone who worked in the middle class even in the south.

In this bill someone like me is going to get screwed, went to college and have paid in the max for the past 15 years and would take a huge cut under this plan. I have no pension of course but only what I have been able to save in a 401k with terrible matches. If you live in a high cost area where wages are high but costs are higher you are going to get the shaft. I have about 20 years left to retirement and those in my group are going to feel a cut like this the worst. Make right around the cap and pay the max and take like a 50% cut in benefits along with adding 2 years to collect. I vote mainly republican but this would make me want to throw them all out.

You can't raise a family and save 50% along with paying taxes for 40 years. A 120k income minus taxes and you are below a 100 then your expenses are probably high in an area that pays that much income. There is not as much left as some think even being tight and not blowing money. All that money I have paid in and will pay would have provided a good retirement for me and my family and doing this will start the push to just do away with the program. That's what the purpose must be because people at my income level will balk at paying for years and years and getting a pittance. I mean good god me and the wife paid 30k in fed tax last year and then ss and medicare tax on top of that and get told we get no college breaks for our kids and have to pay the full ride. So we pay max taxes and get hit from every direction because we make to much yet an apartment around here starts at 2000 a month and now they want to cut our future ss.
 
Old 12-12-2016, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Central NY
4,669 posts, read 3,245,044 times
Reputation: 11951
I am part of the group who will really "feel it" if they touch SS and Medicare. I'm just stating a fact, not looking for sympathy or a pat on the back.

But I am wondering how is it that the funds that were established to help the masses are about to run out but we never hear about any income/benefits running out from the funds that keep our government reps in high standards of living? Why are they never threatened with loss of income and benefits? It's always us, the common person. Where does their money come from? Why is their fund left untouched?

I really just do not get it.
 
Old 12-12-2016, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27672
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Actually, there is not a separate SS fund and never was. The money gets spent as soon as it comes in. That is the real fraud. But disability abuse is definitely a problem. I have a liberal social worker friend (is there any other kind?) who admits she sees it all the time. Not that most people on disability is abusing it, but it's definitely more than just "a few rotten apples" as the apologists claim.
People get this impression that what they pay in FICA is some kind of forced savings programs that goes into a "lockbox" for their personal savings. Like we know, it isn't that at all - it's a "pay-go" system where current retirees are paid for by existing workers. This only works as long as the worker base keeps growing or there is some other adjustment to pay for it.

The disability fraud is likely much worse than most people realize. Here in Appalachia, it is common for multiple generations to be on disability with no one in the family working or even looking for work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevee17 View Post
That's my whole point. You can't retire, especially on government funds, and expect no changes. I think what a lot of this comes down to, is people want their cake and to eat it too. Yes, you and/or your parents can retire. There won't big a big stock pile of money/property for heirs. If that's what you have, you should be living off it. Not stashing it away while living on ss.
Some people have gotten the impression over the years that SS is THE defined pension benefit program. They see it as a "be all, end all" of retirement planning, when the original intent was as a form of insurance to supplement whatever private savings you have.
 
Old 12-12-2016, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Retired
648 posts, read 497,637 times
Reputation: 1057
Overall US lifespan stalled the last four years there is data for, and actually declined in 2015. There is no need to increase the retirement age, that just cheats younger workers.
 
Old 12-12-2016, 06:51 AM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
People get this impression that what they pay in FICA is some kind of forced savings programs that goes into a "lockbox" for their personal savings. Like we know, it isn't that at all - it's a "pay-go" system where current retirees are paid for by existing workers. This only works as long as the worker base keeps growing or there is some other adjustment to pay for it.

The disability fraud is likely much worse than most people realize. Here in Appalachia, it is common for multiple generations to be on disability with no one in the family working or even looking for work.



Some people have gotten the impression over the years that SS is THE defined pension benefit program. They see it as a "be all, end all" of retirement planning, when the original intent was as a form of insurance to supplement whatever private savings you have.
Why shouldn't think it is a defined benefit program when for years they got an annual statement telling them how much the would receive at varying age points. Sure there was a disclaimer but how many times were they told or did they say they would never fool with seniors.
 
Old 12-12-2016, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27672
Quote:
Originally Posted by ftlaudrn View Post
No, you are absolutely right.

You want to lose the house and the senate this is what you do. Listen, you can call it insurance or anything else you want but the fact is it is regarded by the american majority as a retirement plan. In the last 30 plus years with the wholesale cutting of pension plans by most corporations and as there never were any for most small businesses, most Americans have nothing left. Ours is a consumer driven economy and these pie in the sky ancedotal, I was able to save a million by not buying anything or eating ramen for 40 years are just that ancedotal bs. They don't apply to but a small percentage of people as simple life in a capitalistic consumer economy doesn't support it.

If everyone saved a large percentage of their income the economy would slow down and your grand gains on your stock portfolio would be nowhere. Look at europe and japan, years and years of stagflation in Japan, and the avg. citizen are not all millionaires even with a much higher savings rate than here. What they do have are much better safety nets but pay a higher rate of taxes. Right now with a million dollars saved you would be lucky to draw 30k a year safely with current and past return rates over the last 15 years without spending principle. In most cities this is just barely surviving for someone who worked in the middle class even in the south.

In this bill someone like me is going to get screwed, went to college and have paid in the max for the past 15 years and would take a huge cut under this plan. I have no pension of course but only what I have been able to save in a 401k with terrible matches. If you live in a high cost area where wages are high but costs are higher you are going to get the shaft. I have about 20 years left to retirement and those in my group are going to feel a cut like this the worst. Make right around the cap and pay the max and take like a 50% cut in benefits along with adding 2 years to collect. I vote mainly republican but this would make me want to throw them all out.

You can't raise a family and save 50% along with paying taxes for 40 years. A 120k income minus taxes and you are below a 100 then your expenses are probably high in an area that pays that much income. There is not as much left as some think even being tight and not blowing money. All that money I have paid in and will pay would have provided a good retirement for me and my family and doing this will start the push to just do away with the program. That's what the purpose must be because people at my income level will balk at paying for years and years and getting a pittance. I mean good god me and the wife paid 30k in fed tax last year and then ss and medicare tax on top of that and get told we get no college breaks for our kids and have to pay the full ride. So we pay max taxes and get hit from every direction because we make to much yet an apartment around here starts at 2000 a month and now they want to cut our future ss.
I get folks' frustration, but you're also acting like the high income areas have no benefit.

Think about this - people in high income areas are more likely to max out their SS contributions than someone in a lower income area. This will bring more SS income for them in retirement.

They're also likely to have more wealth in home equity. There are all sorts of things where being in the high wage area is beneficial.
 
Old 12-12-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27672
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Why shouldn't think it is a defined benefit program when for years they got an annual statement telling them how much the would receive at varying age points. Sure there was a disclaimer but how many times were they told or did they say they would never fool with seniors.
People often see SS as all that is needed. The people on this forum are smarter than that, but there are lots of common people on the street who think SS is all they'll need.
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