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Old 12-11-2016, 02:07 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 753,731 times
Reputation: 1060

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Social Security doesn't need a huge change. Why do you think that?

What makes you think it was only for the "very elderly"?

What's your definition of "needy"? People who resort to eating cat food? Someone who can't pay for a new roof or to have a car repaired? Someone who can't pay for Medigap and has medical bills he can't pay?

SS is intended as supplemental income for people at a time in their lives when they are unable to better their circumstances much, if at all.

For the people who count on it, it is a sure thing they can count on to pay the mortgage or the car note and food, and other necessities. There are few other things that are a sure thing. For those nearing retirement age, or those who are laid off before 62, it's too late to make other plans. For many, it wouldn't matter, since they don't make a high enough income to make up the lost amounts.

SS benefits from the economies of scale...it doesn't have high costs, like a 401K. It can't be replicated by the ordinary worker. Esp the amount the employer contributes.

It's been a wonderful program for seniors. It needs to continue. Do you think it's right that the govt will significantly cut the income of our seniors, after they put into it for decades and counted on the promise? Knowing that there's little else they can do to make up for it, at their late stage in life? Knowing that this will mean hardship for many, possibly loss of homes, loss of medical treatment? That's what this bill is.
These things were never promised to them. I don't know where they got the idea, because I remember being a child in the early 90s and my mother who is now close to retirement getting statements on what she was entitled to. On the bottom is said something to the effect of this is not a retirement plan, you should have a retirement plan in place. I can't remember the exact wording. This wouldn't the first time the age was adjusted. Social security isn't a retirement plan and was never meant to be one. It only came into being when many elderly people were literally homeless. I feel bad if they can't afford their homes and car payments, but they have options. There is free (to them) transportation for the elderly. I think it's called access something. There's also senior housing that is income based. If they wanted to keep their homes and cares, they should have planned and doubled checked things.

 
Old 12-11-2016, 02:37 PM
 
486 posts, read 324,201 times
Reputation: 1139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevee17 View Post
These things were never promised to them. I don't know where they got the idea, because I remember being a child in the early 90s and my mother who is now close to retirement getting statements on what she was entitled to. On the bottom is said something to the effect of this is not a retirement plan, you should have a retirement plan in place. I can't remember the exact wording. This wouldn't the first time the age was adjusted. Social security isn't a retirement plan and was never meant to be one. It only came into being when many elderly people were literally homeless. I feel bad if they can't afford their homes and car payments, but they have options. There is free (to them) transportation for the elderly. I think it's called access something. There's also senior housing that is income based. If they wanted to keep their homes and cares, they should have planned and doubled checked things.
You are what, in your 30's?


Housing and transportation aren't the only expenses that the elderly have to deal with. Healthcare (Medicare is NOT free, and God only knows whether it'll be around in a few years), prescription drug costs (which could easily be in the hundreds for a senior), clothes, food... All essential items. Great to say "they should have planned and double checked things", but not everyone has/had the resources to save more, get a better job, whatever.
 
Old 12-11-2016, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,574,904 times
Reputation: 27672
A lot of the congressional Republicans will want to cut but between nervous Republicans and Democeats there probably won't be enough votes to go through - not even considering Trump.
 
Old 12-11-2016, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,840 posts, read 4,956,944 times
Reputation: 17309
I think Congress will be reluctant to actually cut Social Security.

For most Americans (and especially Rural Republicans) it's all they've got!

"Keep your Gubmint outta my Social Security"
 
Old 12-11-2016, 02:52 PM
 
Location: WA
5,395 posts, read 21,398,752 times
Reputation: 5898
SS (like many government programs) is not on a sustainable track so some change must be made. I don't know if this is the right one but the conversation must start somewhere.
 
Old 12-11-2016, 03:22 PM
 
3,455 posts, read 2,329,960 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
GOP introduces plan to massively cut Social Security

Social Security checks would be cut 11% to 35% for the worker who draws $50k in benefits. All income levels would see reductions, except the very bottom (receiving about $12k), who might see a small increase.

This bill will be deliberated in 2017.

Wow. Those are stiff cuts. Many are going to fall into poverty, if this happens. If not poverty, this will drastically affect the ability of many to maintain their homes and cars and other necessities of life that they have budgeted out already.
Who gets $50K in SS benefits? The maximum benefit payable in 2017 will be $3,538: https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/examplemax.html
 
Old 12-11-2016, 03:27 PM
 
3,455 posts, read 2,329,960 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
This is a true fact. I know of several doing this. The doctors and lawyers are a good deal to blame and the gov. is too enormous to really run the program right. But we will all be penalized.


There is a statistic out that says in the lean years of unemployment, disability claims go up. That is a true fact also. But, who cares ? The government certainly doesn't. Until we run out of workers putting money into the system, it isn't going to change.


And, no, it isn't Trumps fault. Blame those who came before him [mod cut]
Is a "true fact" opposed to, say, a "false fact"? And does saying something is a "true fact" somehow make your statements "truer"?
 
Old 12-11-2016, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,159 posts, read 3,005,463 times
Reputation: 13822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Hasn't this topic been beaten to death?

Trump has stated to preserve the entitlement programs. Google anything on Trump and you will see that he is not an entitlement cutting Republican. If anything, Trump is the most entitlement friendly Republican president in recent memory.
Contingent of course, on him breaking his personal precedent and keeping his word about something.
 
Old 12-11-2016, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,916 posts, read 14,238,717 times
Reputation: 16096
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
[mod cut]

I see where the raising of the full retirement age pertains to younger people, of course. But not the cutting of benefits. The formula for calculating benefits will change, which will affect all beneficiaries, and result in massive cuts to all. I don't see a disclaimer about age for that.
Quote:
However, the bill is even more sinister than a plan cut, because it attacks the fundamental basis of the entire program. The raising of the retirement age and the cutting of benefits opens the door to Social Security being reshaped from a retirement program for all to a program for older Americans while everyone else has their retirement privatized.
After Darkness Fell, Republicans Unveiled Their Sinister Plan To Dismantle Social Security
It does not attack the fundamental basis of the program.

Social Security is an insurance program, and should be treated as such.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
However, SS was never designed to pay for disabled people. So that is a part of the program that has hit it very hard. People getting disability payments when they didn't work and contribute for decades. But who wants to pull disabled people off SSI? It should have had its own program, IMO.
Each of the 50 States had their own disability programs when Eisenhower nationalized them.

State programs were superior to SSDI, because they paid benefits for Total Temporary Disability and Partial Disability that SSDi refeuses to pay.

The best thing to do is abandon SSDI and let the States handle it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
I'll look most closely at the 30 page SSA summary tomorrow to see if there are other significant surprises. Considering that the analysis showed that some of the provisions resulted in either teensy savings on the order of -0.005 % to +0.005 and at least one provision that increased the costs of the program, Johnson probably should have waited until he received the analysis before introducing the bill. OTOH, this leaves him room to negotiate.
Looks like a lot of tweaking with no real savings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koshka2 View Post
I am concerned about this proposal.
The Bill will be dead shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koshka2 View Post
I do understand that SS may need some changes but there are ways to tweak it that don't involve extreme cuts.
The cuts aren't extreme, unless you happen to have lots of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim9251 View Post
Golly $50,000 a year in Social Security? I choose the wrong career.
The maximum monthly benefit is a little over $2,600, so, no, no one is receiving $50,000 annually in Social Security benefits,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim9251 View Post
Anyway, SS is a program WE PAID INTO, all our working lives. It's not entitlement like food stamps.
It's an insurance program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccm123 View Post
Just sad all around. Reducing benefits for powerless retirees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
"Social Security checks would be cut 11% to 35% for the worker who draws $50k in benefits. "
That, alone, won't touch very many people.
No, it won't, but that doesn't keep partisan bickering from running rampant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
Raising the eligibility age will result in many people dying before they ever can collect a penny of what they put in for 30 years.
Your Life-Expectancy will flat-line or stagnate due to the Obesity and Type II Diabetes epidemic in the US.
 
Old 12-11-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,159 posts, read 3,005,463 times
Reputation: 13822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
I think Congress will be reluctant to actually cut Social Security.

For most Americans (and especially Rural Republicans) it's all they've got!

"Keep your Gubmint outta my Social Security"
I don't know the precise figures, but I've read that half of those who receive Social Security, have no other source of income. And currently, half of those in the U.S. who are close to retirement age, have no savings.
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