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Old 01-02-2017, 04:13 PM
 
Location: OH>IL>CO>CT
5,231 posts, read 8,392,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Thanks but again these are today's figures. Let me re-phrase my question: Would the 62 year old who filed in 1970 pay the same reduction % from his/her FRA benefit as the 62 year old who files in 2017? I have to believe it was a smaller penalty as it was only 3 years early.
Yes, it would be smaller reduction.

Per the chart,

62 in 1970 = 1908 birth year = FRA of 65 = 36 mo early = 20% reduction (more $$ for shorter time)

62 in 2017 = 1955 birth year = FRA of 66+2mo = 50 mo early = 25.83% reduction ( less $$ for longer time)
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,745 posts, read 4,215,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Thanks but again these are today's figures. Let me re-phrase my question: Would the 62 year old who filed in 1970 pay the same reduction % from his/her FRA benefit as the 62 year old who files in 2017? I have to believe it was a smaller penalty as it was only 3 years early.
Actually, I understood what you were saying in both of your replies. Admittedly, I did give one of my "shorthand" responses with a link. Sorry.

Hopefully, per reed303's post, you can see an increasing percentage of reduction of benefits (in the 5th column of the linked chart) for each successive cohort.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:54 AM
 
30,071 posts, read 47,312,423 times
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This is all moot if the GOP is able to revise SS benefits acvording to Johnson's proposed reform
Forbes Welcome
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,009 posts, read 13,571,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Nor should it. If you are able-bodied, you should either be working 2 or 3 jobs, or doing something to increase your income. I don't want MY hard earned dollars going to support someone too lazy to better themselves.
Easy for you to say. It's actually difficult for a person to work 'two or three jobs' no matter how hard they try. Most low wage jobs are 20-25 hours a week, but the hours usually change every week, so you tell me how does someone work two or three jobs when they don't know what hours/day they will be working from one week to another
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,009 posts, read 13,571,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
it isn't the degree , it is the person's own , motivation ,drive and creativity that decides how they do. those that want to succeed will find a way- the rest just find an excuse
No, actually the claim that if people want to succeed they will find a way is a cop out for people who want to claim that being poor is a choice.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:26 AM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
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you can try to defend failing financially all you want but most of those people who failed financially did so by their own history of poor choices and bad decisions .

i saw it first hand with my buddy's who i still keep in contact with from when i lived in a nyc housing project . they are all still trapped there now raising their own families and hate the life there .

i begged them to go with me back in the 1970's to a trade school but they all rather hang out instead . that is a story that repeats over and over everywhere .

sure there are exceptions , and the sad truth is many people like to think they are that exception but when you take a look as a 3rd party you can generally see the poor choices and bad decisions that led up to them failing .

we all go through job loss-divorce and illness at some point but we all come out very differently from it .
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:39 AM
 
30,071 posts, read 47,312,423 times
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@Mathjak--
To certain extent I do agree with personal responsibility as a factor in personal success---
My SIL is kind of case in point--he has been unemployed twice within past 14 mo--once because he refused to relocate to keep the job he had working mainly remote from home for company about 2 hrs away...and second one was I think a bait-switch job...initially it was contract opening and he talked the mgr hiring into making it a full time job...once he got in and started making improvements, he and the mgr didn't always agree on changes....he was doing such a good job at improving work flow that the computer techs (this is cyber security company) has more free time than before--but the mgr who was supposed to gain new contracts wasn't very successful---so there was lot of idle time...mgr didn't want to blame himself for lack of work so he blamed SIL and cut him loose end of the year...

He has great skills for his job profile (lean 6 sigma/continuous improvement/Proj management/scrum) but he refuses to relocate from their current area on FL gulf coast...where there is not lot of call for his skill set...
Most jobs are in health care/insurance and he has no experience/certifications in those areas...
At his age 40+ the employment window narrows even more...
IF he were willing to consider relocating to say the DFW TX area where we are from, there are dozens of job opening for any 1 in this area---

But I have also seen cases where decisions made early in life or even later can become obstacles that can be too hard to overcome all on your own...young women are often caught in this when they have children w/o the capacity to support them or themselves....even with best of intentions, working low-paying jobs and needing child care are factors that can prevent even motivated people from being successful...

The cost of education post high school has risen astronomically and parents and children often mistake image for value....once debt is incurred it can be very difficult to pay it off...
We were able to pay for both our children's college educations and helped them with graduate school expenses but our son made a really poor choice with what he planned--wanted to be college English professor--but didn't start that path from beginning--when he was right out of high school---

He was incentivized by the college he chose because frankly they wanted grad students in their college to save their own jobs---tried to talk him into going into something with more of a business application but he didn't want to hear...
Now he is working as media designer/producer for company doing supplemental educational materials---
finally getting decent salary and has good health insurance/leave policy because home company is in MN vs TX where the job is....
But he would have been in much better situation if he had understood that was a viable job option when he started grad school---would have earned more money and had better marketability vs slogging his way up the food chain after he realized he was not going to get PhD/college teaching job w/tenure...

School districts need to take part of the responsibility for how ill-prepared students are when they graduate high school---some of them are capable and desire college---some of them just want to put off adulthood for as many years as they can and use college for social/fun vs work-prep...
Some of them can learn a job skill IN high school that gives them marketable skills and self-sufficiency but those types of programs require equipment and teachers that are more expensive than conventional classrooms...and thus don't get funding they require....
The areas--rural America--that need better job training are the ones least likely to get it...
And from my own perspective--people who grow up in those areas are often the ones who resist moving to better employment areas....
Look at the coal miners who want their jobs back vs relocating and retraining...
Look at all the Carrier workers who want their old jobs back vs training at a job where a robot won't replace them in two years...
Those are the people who are going to see their SS benefits reduced by this Congress because the conservatives refuse to consider the idea of raising the cap on taxed earnings...
Punish the working poor to save the 1%---that is so wrong...
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,009 posts, read 13,571,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you can try to defend failing financially all you want but most of those people who failed financially did so by their own history of poor choices and bad decisions .
i saw it first hand with my buddy's who i still keep in contact with from when i lived in a nyc housing project . they are all still trapped there now raising their own families and hate the life there .
i begged them to go with me back in the 1970's to a trade school but they all rather hang out instead . that is a story that repeats over and over everywhere .
sure there are exceptions , and the sad truth is many people like to think they are that exception but when you take a look as a 3rd party you can generally see the poor choices and bad decisions that led up to them failing .
we all go through job loss-divorce and illness at some point but we all come out very differently from it .
The problem with the "poor choices" theory is that implicit in it is an assumption that those people deserve to suffer for the rest of their lives. There are people who do not have the capacity to learn skills that would yield a good paying job, how was that a "bad choice" on their part? Others live in areas where lack of transportation limits their ability to find a good job, they were probably born there and have kids or even adult family members to care for. It's hard to move to a place where there are better jobs when you can hardly pay the rent where you are. If you are over 55 and become unemployed it can be next to impossible to find a job. Maybe you are so perfect that you never made a mistake but most of us have feet of clay and have compassion for others because we understand how easy it is to make a mistake or fail in spite of how hard we might try
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,572 posts, read 17,544,804 times
Reputation: 27630
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
School districts need to take part of the responsibility for how ill-prepared students are when they graduate high school---some of them are capable and desire college---some of them just want to put off adulthood for as many years as they can and use college for social/fun vs work-prep...
Some of them can learn a job skill IN high school that gives them marketable skills and self-sufficiency but those types of programs require equipment and teachers that are more expensive than conventional classrooms...and thus don't get funding they require....
The areas--rural America--that need better job training are the ones least likely to get it...
And from my own perspective--people who grow up in those areas are often the ones who resist moving to better employment areas....
Look at the coal miners who want their jobs back vs relocating and retraining...
Look at all the Carrier workers who want their old jobs back vs training at a job where a robot won't replace them in two years...
Those are the people who are going to see their SS benefits reduced by this Congress because the conservatives refuse to consider the idea of raising the cap on taxed earnings...
Punish the working poor to save the 1%---that is so wrong...
I agree on personal responsibility. I know a lot of people who have made substantial errors in life and end up in a hard time. Even then, many of those people continue making the same errors over and over again.

I went to school with two beautiful, intelligent twin sisters. They could have done anything. Their parents were druggies, and both of them into hard drugs and the party lifestyle. Both had a kid in their early 20s - one had another kid later. Both went from man to man. Both have long legal records for drug offenses but nothing violent.

Neither has worked consistently to my knowledge. One had a more severe drug problem than the other - overdosed and was sent to the ER, checked herself out too early, then overdosed a couple days later and died, leaving behind two children at age 29. The other one was in a car wreck several years ago while high and lost a leg halfway up the thigh. I think the surviving twin has basically gotten the message on the drug use now. We were talking last week and she gets emotional realizing how much she's screwed up her life and the life of her now middle school daughter. I still think she can turn it around if she sets her mind to it.

The comment about the coal miners is spot on. I live near coal country and worked in a coal county for a couple years after college. Coal mining, as we know it, is virtually dead. It's not coming back to employ large numbers of people. The people either can't or don't want to understand this. They need to retrain and many will have to move. There aren't many options here for legitimate work. It's not the 1950s anymore. I voted for Trump, but in a way, he has given people false hope.

People in rural areas have often reacted in a dysfunctional manner to changing times and conditions. Instead of retraining for what jobs are available, remaining sober, or relocating, many remain stuck in the same areas, whining and complaining about days gone by, addled on pills. The people have failed themselves, but government and educational institutions have failed too. At least here in east TN and southwest VA, we get virtually no assistance or direction from Nashville and Richmond. Schools do not train to match local needs and promise false hope on the jobs front.

It is a complex issue with many moving parts that hasn't been sufficiently addressed by anyone, and impacts residents in these areas from birth to old age.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:26 AM
 
71,511 posts, read 71,674,131 times
Reputation: 49088
like i said if you are creative many of those folks will find a way . the septic guy we used when we had our pocono home had an elementary school education .

by doing what others won't or can't he now owns a very successful business today with a fleet of trucks . it is not all about education , it is about finding the places others do not go or can't do for themselves . .you can take the same situations and there will always be folks that succeed and folks that fail
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