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Old 01-07-2017, 11:55 AM
 
29,788 posts, read 34,885,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
There have been some very good threads on this topic on bogleheads. The biggest concern that I got from those threads is that LTC policies have changed over the years and when you buy a policy, the terms can and do change for the policy holder. So you can be paying for years and years thinking you will get what you signed up for originally but you may not by the time you need it. LTC insurance companies are not bound by the terms of the original policy they sold you.

The problem is that more people are living longer so LTCi has become a losing proposition for insurance companies. Many have gotten out of it all together. If they are reluctant to be in the business, it makes me nervous that I will get what I need out of them.

Actuarial data shows that the likelihood of needing LTC is pretty high, so LTCi premiums have to be high since it is likely the insurance company is going to have to pay for your care. If my premiums are approaching the present-value of those future pay-outs, self-insuring becomes more viable. So that is what we are doing.
All good points
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:58 AM
 
29,788 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
understand your angst.
Bankers Life hit with Oregon class-action lawsuit over long-term care insurance | OregonLive.com
Jim Cramer's family.

The reps who showed us LTCi stressed (circa 2002) that the buyer should have adequate resources to fund LTCi for decades and a few 100k in retirement assets, not including home. If you have considerably more, in assets, even the LTCi reps recognized that you could consider self-funding. Their stress was that you could leave a bigger legacy to your heirs with LTCi than doing self-funding.
I am not sure who you got your insurance from but the rep sounds a lot like ours. This was around the same time period and he was use to working with people in our situation and options. He was stressing a comprehensive approach coming at it from multiple angles and safety checks. It wasn't for everyone and every age point. It was over kill but it also came from a desired retirement goal to lock things down which was possible and practiced by a number of peers.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:00 PM
 
29,788 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
You may not need to pay a dime during the elimination period. My policy states that the period begins when you are eligible for long term care but not necessarily paying for long term care. For example, a family member could provide care in the home for 90 days and that period will count towards the elimination period.
Sure but that is down the road and not being sure how or what circumstances might be it was wise to be prepared to pay for it out of pocket if needed.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:34 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,420,794 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Not subsidized at all and fully paid for by the policy holders. The company made a mistake and at one point tried to raised premiums and was challenged by policy holders and relented. The policy summary clearly stated premiums would not be raised as part of the offering. That didn't last very long as a offering but as you and others have noted it was in the earlier stages of the industry and they did what they did to get the bid. There are now multiple vendors offered through the association and they have a process to help you decide which is best for you. The insurance company used local agents to sell the policy directly to you per state insurance laws. I suspect their commission was lower than the norm in exchange for getting the business. You have no argument with me about buying the policy but I also recognize that many can't afford the monthly premium especially if they delay age wise buying it. We are very happy we have ours and know others who aren't and others who would now be reaping benefits if they had purchased when I strongly suggested they do.

Again as I noted in another thread I find humble brag to be a sorta of funny bit of jargon around here. To me it is just stating the facts as they relate to the topic whether that amount is high or low. But as always to each their own and we may all prosper on our own terms.
Actually if your premium is fixed because of a fluke then it is being subsidized by someone or when it runs out of funds then your policy will be terminated. Please be honest about that.

Just as people need to be honest that the taxpayers will subsidize their care if they have not planned for payment of their care. Now it is possible that my premiums will be used to subsidize another policy holders care or theirs mine. If we both need the care then maybe all our premiums will increase but that was the agreement we entered into willingly.

You call your statements facts but when I make the same factual statements that not everyone can afford LTCi you want to say I am not being empathetic. Geez, you even made a second post to clearly make your point that you think you are superior to me.

The fact is that if you cannot afford the premiums YOU PROBABLY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE CARE. But if you can afford the premiums BUT CHOOSE NOT TO then you STILL may not be able to afford the care. See what I'm saying?
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:42 PM
 
29,788 posts, read 34,885,423 times
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It is with a major company and the association is still facilitating policies. By a mistake I simply meant it was intentional but not long term actuarial wise and they have adjusted just as they have made many changes. It is a large association with millions of members
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:25 PM
 
29,788 posts, read 34,885,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
Actually if your premium is fixed because of a fluke then it is being subsidized by someone or when it runs out of funds then your policy will be terminated. Please be honest about that.

Just as people need to be honest that the taxpayers will subsidize their care if they have not planned for payment of their care. Now it is possible that my premiums will be used to subsidize another policy holders care or theirs mine. If we both need the care then maybe all our premiums will increase but that was the agreement we entered into willingly.

You call your statements facts but when I make the same factual statements that not everyone can afford LTCi you want to say I am not being empathetic. Geez, you even made a second post to clearly make your point that you think you are superior to me.

The fact is that if you cannot afford the premiums YOU PROBABLY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD THE CARE. But if you can afford the premiums BUT CHOOSE NOT TO then you STILL may not be able to afford the care. See what I'm saying?
Sure the confusion was in your style. I read you not as making general statements but as making a direct reference to me. We have had this confusion before as your responses are similar to other threads on this topic. We don't disagree and perhaps I personalized when that wasn't your intent.

Our policy price was very locally based and used methods that might not be legal today in some states. It was zip code based and while through a major over currently close to 3 million member organization it was very local in pricing. He explained thinking as we had a very good conversation and he was asking questions to confirm assumptions he was making.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:38 PM
 
3,099 posts, read 826,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
...
No - I want to hear from folks who paid in for a decade or two and are NOW MAKING CLAIMS. Did your premiums go up since you started the policy? Are you having trouble getting out what you put in? Are you glad you got it?
Twice in the past I've considered LTCi then passed. I could self-insure but then also fall into the group that would like to pass on assets. About 25 years ago when the product was first available (a group policy), I didn't buy after seeing some financial projections that the most cost-effective time would be in your early 60s. THAT sure turned out to be wrong.

When I next considered it, the issue for me wasn't so much the insurance company rejecting claims as the future financial stability of the issuer. Would they be there? Maybe today it's possible to choose a supplier with greater confidence, but then premiums are correspondingly much higher.

I googled briefly before posting and was surprised to see this stat:

Quote:
Only 100,000 traditional long-term care insurance policies were sold in 2015, compared to 700,000 in 2000. With relatively few consumers making purchases, state insurance commissions may be focused on more far-reaching topics such as health care affordability.
Out-of-Control Premium Hikes for Long-Term Care Insurance | Personal Finance | US News
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:49 PM
 
71,735 posts, read 71,829,507 times
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WE are in to our 3rd year . after an adjustment after year one we have had no increases . many company's were way behind premium wise as more and more folks used benefits and so old increase requests were approved all at once so there was a flood of increases and then they leveled off ..
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,420,794 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Sure the confusion was in your style. I read you not as making general statements but as making a direct reference to me. We have had this confusion before as your responses are similar to other threads on this topic. We don't disagree and perhaps I personalized when that wasn't your intent.

Our policy price was very locally based and used methods that might not be legal today in some states. It was zip code based and while through a major over currently close to 3 million member organization it was very local in pricing. He explained thinking as we had a very good conversation and he was asking questions to confirm assumptions he was making.
I'm not sure where your confusion or my style is involved here. You quoted me, "Seems like the only people that should NOT have LTCi are the people that can't afford the premiums over a 30 year period."
Then you stated.
"The part I put in bold is the problem. The cost has become so great that many can't afford it and as folks retire and premiums continue to rise what was affordable no longer is."

As far as being personal I was using the Royal You. You have a fixed premium so I assume you are happy with your subsidized payment but sure, it would be interesting to hear what TuborgP thinks is TOO much.

I started a thread here or on another forum asking what "people" actually thought was TOO expensive. People seemed to not want to quantify that as participation was very limited yet people keep posting that IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE! I keep posting that my policy is about the cost of a pack of smokes a day over 30 years. IS THAT TOO EXPENSIVE?

But my point that you seemed to miss entirely is that people need to price LTCi today and make a reasonable estimate on the cost over time and the COST OF CARE in the future. I estimated the premiums doubling ever 10 years and after almost 20 years that was a good estimate. Too many people seem to think the costs should be fixed for a benefit that is increasing 5% a year! And people seem to think they'll be paying the cost of care today, say $100,000, versus the probable cost 20 years from now of around $300,000! A year!

So what are people considering TOO much?
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,253 posts, read 8,548,360 times
Reputation: 35684
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
I'm not sure where your confusion or my style is involved here. You quoted me, "Seems like the only people that should NOT have LTCi are the people that can't afford the premiums over a 30 year period."
Then you stated.
"The part I put in bold is the problem. The cost has become so great that many can't afford it and as folks retire and premiums continue to rise what was affordable no longer is."

As far as being personal I was using the Royal You. You have a fixed premium so I assume you are happy with your subsidized payment but sure, it would be interesting to hear what TuborgP thinks is TOO much.

I started a thread here or on another forum asking what "people" actually thought was TOO expensive. People seemed to not want to quantify that as participation was very limited yet people keep posting that IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE! I keep posting that my policy is about the cost of a pack of smokes a day over 30 years. IS THAT TOO EXPENSIVE?

But my point that you seemed to miss entirely is that people need to price LTCi today and make a reasonable estimate on the cost over time and the COST OF CARE in the future. I estimated the premiums doubling ever 10 years and after almost 20 years that was a good estimate. Too many people seem to think the costs should be fixed for a benefit that is increasing 5% a year! And people seem to think they'll be paying the cost of care today, say $100,000, versus the probable cost 20 years from now of around $300,000! A year!

So what are people considering TOO much?
Seems I've heard you reference the cost as a "pack of smokes" as though taking a jab that the same people who say LTCi is too expensive are the same ones who are smoking? So....what do YOU pay for a pack of smokes?
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