U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-08-2017, 06:38 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,420,794 times
Reputation: 1971

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Seems I've heard you reference the cost as a "pack of smokes" as though taking a jab that the same people who say LTCi is too expensive are the same ones who are smoking? So....what do YOU pay for a pack of smokes?
I could have used the daily Latte example that has been bandied about. Just kinda pointing out that bums can acquire/afford a pack of cigarettes a day. Couldn't they afford LTCi? No jab intended. My family raised tobacco. I wisely quit when cigarettes were $.55 a pack!

LTCi premiums, 10 years $10,000. Next ten years $20,000. Last ten years $40,000. $70,000 over 30 years is about 10,950 days = $6.39 a day. I've heard of areas that $10.00 a pack is the going rate.

Now there was a poster that said he'd rather spend $3,600 on fun and travel instead of LTCi. Maybe he'll regret that down the road, maybe not. If $3,600 was the TOTAl discretionary income he has then maybe it is the wisest choice since the government WILL have a plan if he doesn't. Maybe it irks me that people would rather have the taxpayers pay for their care just so their able bodied kids may get an extra $100,000.

Thinking about it maybe I should use the latte. I don't even know where cigarettes are sold but I know I do stand in line for coffee behind a lot of younger people buying $5.00-6.00 drinks.

Last edited by honobob; 01-08-2017 at 06:51 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-09-2017, 02:25 AM
 
71,708 posts, read 71,829,507 times
Reputation: 49273
we pay 8k a year for our 2 plans . we took them in our 60's . we get a 1600.00 tax credit from nys plus whatever we can get back on the federal so we net out around 6k or so ..

350 a day , 5% inflation adder , 3 years snf coverage , 6 years assisted living and then all the parks the partnership plan gives us once the insurance runs out .

it is very expensive once you take it later in life . one years difference got me hit with a 1k adder because i was prediabetic at that point .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,254 posts, read 8,548,360 times
Reputation: 35684
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
I could have used the daily Latte example that has been bandied about. Just kinda pointing out that bums can acquire/afford a pack of cigarettes a day. Couldn't they afford LTCi? No jab intended. My family raised tobacco. I wisely quit when cigarettes were $.55 a pack!

LTCi premiums, 10 years $10,000. Next ten years $20,000. Last ten years $40,000. $70,000 over 30 years is about 10,950 days = $6.39 a day. I've heard of areas that $10.00 a pack is the going rate.

Now there was a poster that said he'd rather spend $3,600 on fun and travel instead of LTCi. Maybe he'll regret that down the road, maybe not. If $3,600 was the TOTAl discretionary income he has then maybe it is the wisest choice since the government WILL have a plan if he doesn't. Maybe it irks me that people would rather have the taxpayers pay for their care just so their able bodied kids may get an extra $100,000.

Thinking about it maybe I should use the latte. I don't even know where cigarettes are sold but I know I do stand in line for coffee behind a lot of younger people buying $5.00-6.00 drinks.
Okay...I get what you're saying.

I'm not sure why you're irked about people relying on the govt. though for nursing home care. All I hear is that it's such a nightmare and that assisted living is so much better. than nursing homes. Same argument with people complaining about other forms of "assistance" - if you want to live on 20,000 a year or live in a state funded nursing home because you are "irked" then go for it?!

I've had numerous relatives run out of money after spending 5-10 years in nursing homes. This was awhiile back but in the county nursing home as far as I could tell they stayed in the same room and got the same care after as they did before so...guess it was all equally bad?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 09:18 AM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11710
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Okay...I get what you're saying.

I'm not sure why you're irked about people relying on the govt. though for nursing home care. All I hear is that it's such a nightmare and that assisted living is so much better. than nursing homes. Same argument with people complaining about other forms of "assistance" - if you want to live on 20,000 a year or live in a state funded nursing home because you are "irked" then go for it?!

I've had numerous relatives run out of money after spending 5-10 years in nursing homes. This was awhiile back but in the county nursing home as far as I could tell they stayed in the same room and got the same care after as they did before so...guess it was all equally bad?
As I shared previously this is changing in many areas with Medicaid beds on the decline. Within licensing structures there are regulations that allow facilities to not offer Medicaid beds and to kick people out if they want. Top tier nursing homes in some areas are operating as CCRC's and our often cheaper
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 10:40 AM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,420,794 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post

I'm not sure why you're irked about people relying on the govt. though for nursing home care. All I hear is that it's such a nightmare and that assisted living is so much better. than nursing homes. Same argument with people complaining about other forms of "assistance" - if you want to live on 20,000 a year or live in a state funded nursing home because you are "irked" then go for it?!
I did say "maybe" and it was about people who chose NOT to have LTCi because they wanted the money for their ABLE BODIED KIDS.

I'm not the only person that has pointed out the financial problems that come with putting your kids college fund, etc. over their own retirement planning, etc.

The thing is that probably no one will pay over $100,000 in LTCi premiums! That will barely cover the cost for one year TODAY. If you can afford that over 20-30 years why wouldn't you? I also think MOST children would rather hear that there is a monetary plan when you enter a SNF vs. an inheritance of maybe $100,000 less. If it is the child spending the parent's money they'll see how short a month can seem when you are writing $5000-$10,000 checks each month.

The thing people seem to gloss over on these LTCi threads is the CARE part. I think I may be the only poster that brings that up. That $100,000 in not the all inclusive Club Med plan. Sure, like Mathjak you don't want to impoverish a spouse or a special needs child but to me the CARE is the thing that I am insuring for.

Being able to pay for your care will get you into places that Medicaid won't and will keep you in when the Medicaid bed is no more. When I was looking for my father there were places that I walked in and right back out. Is the care the same for Medicaid and self pay people in the same facility? Well, first if you are on Medicaid your assets have been exhausted and you are on an allowance of about $35. With my policy paying the bulk of the care I'll have over $10,000 a month extra. Some of that will get me a private room. Trust me, visitors will be more likely to keep visiting and stay longer if you are in a private room. I'll be able to have a masseuse and even paid company if I want/need it. Guess which patient the staff will gravitate to.

Now my fathers "extras" were provided by me but as a self paid patient his room was located at the very end of hallway with a patio outside. The Medicaid beds were along the main hallway with all the noise/smells that that involves.

Last edited by honobob; 01-09-2017 at 11:25 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 11:03 AM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11710
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
I did say "maybe" and it was about people who chose NOT to have LTCi because they wanted the money for their ABLE BODIED KIDS.

I'm not the only person that has pointed out the financial problems that come with putting your kids college fund, etc. over their own retirement planning, etc.

The thing is that probably no one will pay over $100,000 in LTCi premiums! That will barely cover the cost for one year TODAY. If you can afford that over 20-30 years why wouldn't you? I also think MOST children would rather hear that there is a monetary plan when you enter a SNF vs. an inheritance of maybe $100,000 less. If it is the child spending the parent's money they'll see how short a month can seem when you are writing $5000-$10,000 checks each month.

The thing people seem to gloss over on these LTCi threads is the CARE part. I think I may be the only poster that brings that up. Sure, like Mathjak you don't want to impoverish a spouse or a special needs child but to me the CARE is the thing that I am insuring for.

Being able to pay for your care will get you into places that Medicaid won't and will keep you in when the Medicaid bed is no more. When I was looking for my father there were places that I walked in and right back out. Is the care the same for Medicaid and self pay people in the same facility? Well, first if you are on Medicaid your assets have been exhausted and you are on an allowance of about $35. With my policy paying the bulk of the care I'll have over $10,000 a month extra. Some of that will get me a private room. Trust me, visitors will be more likely to keep visiting and stay longer if you are in a private room. I'll be able to have a masseuse and even paid company if I want/need it. Guess which patient the staff will gravitate to.

Now my fathers "extras" were provided by me but as a self paid patient his room was located at the very end of hallway with a patio outside. The Medicaid beds were along the main hallway with all the noise/smells that that involves.
Per your thoughts:
https://www.medicare.gov/nursinghomecompare/search.html

Folks can search federal ratings for nursing homes in their area by quality. The can also limit the quality search to CCRC communities. Not a lot of choice if you are dependent on Medicaid or have limited funds to pay for beyond two years. Many quality facilities want you to show a minimum of two years ability to pay.

I keep mentioning CCRC's because they are often the doorway to a high quality nursing home that you are guaranteed the ability to get in to.

Within that context a LTCi policy has mixed value. Those with a buy in often have a fixed required fee for long term care even if you have insurance. That is one of the reasons some newer models are going to a monthly fee with your insurance covering most of the daily nursing care. There are luxury features in some places as you have mentioned.

One of the things I have been told by the reps is that LTCi and even there insurance doesn't cover everything and you still need funding along with Medicare and supplemental insurance.

Trying to do this without a plan can be regretted down the road.

Also I have seen where top care Nursing Homes in CCRC's with a monthly charge and no Medicaid beds are cheaper. LTCi and self pay folks in Medicaid facilities are often helping to subsidize Medicaid beds.

I have also had it shared that you can negotiate fees if you come to the plate with insurance and or money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 11:11 AM
 
6,885 posts, read 7,292,401 times
Reputation: 9791
Quote:
I keep mentioning CCRC's because they are often the doorway to a high quality nursing home that you are guaranteed the ability to get in to.
I'm thinking of this possibility. But in another thread, someone, I forget who, also rightly pointed out a couple of the unknowns about CCRCs longterm as well. One being their financial stability if fewer and fewer people are able to buy in…might they change their model and start taking non-buy-in private pay patients (or Medicaid people.)

I'm moving to the state I'll likely never move from so I may revisit a partnership policy there….maybe.

As for the OP's question, my aunt who died 10-1/2 years ago had a LTC policy. In 2005 when she went into a nursing home at 94 (with colon cancer) -- the insurer paid without an issue whatsoever. ($60.00 a day)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 01:13 PM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,885,423 times
Reputation: 11710
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
I'm thinking of this possibility. But in another thread, someone, I forget who, also rightly pointed out a couple of the unknowns about CCRCs longterm as well. One being their financial stability if fewer and fewer people are able to buy in…might they change their model and start taking non-buy-in private pay patients (or Medicaid people.)

I'm moving to the state I'll likely never move from so I may revisit a partnership policy there….maybe.

As for the OP's question, my aunt who died 10-1/2 years ago had a LTC policy. In 2005 when she went into a nursing home at 94 (with colon cancer) -- the insurer paid without an issue whatsoever. ($60.00 a day)
Sure as a consumer you should have a question and concern about the stability of a CCRC with a financial buy in. Understand they have the same concerns and you want to see their detailed financial statement.

Yes they as a industry have the same concern especially with fixed investments being so low. Issuing low interest bonds to build and get started is great but once they get started they need to invest those buy in fees for future operations.

Thus the emergence of monthly fees and no buy in programs. We had two CCRC's on our eventual list and one with a very expensive buy in and the other with expensive monthly fees and we opted for the monthly fee program to become affiliated with as a future resident ( hopefully ten years or more). Having LTCi made it easy.

The drawback is with a monthly fee is that if a couple ends up in different levels of care you have to pay for each.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/ret...to-a-ccrc.html

Quote:
Traditionally, CCRCs offered "life care" or type A contracts, which typically involve high entrance fees but limit future cost increases for long-term-care services. By prepaying for long-term care, residents are limiting their risks if care costs skyrocket.

While these contracts are still common, many CCRCs also offer other options. These include "modified" or type B contracts, which typically have lower entrance fees but include only a limited amount of assisted living and nursing care in the initial fee. This contract potentially requires residents to shoulder higher fees as their care needs increase. Fee-for-service or type C contracts may have lower entrance fees than type A or B contracts but require residents to pay for care at the market rate when they need services.

The choice of contract can depend on the senior's ability to absorb future cost increases, health status and risk tolerance. With a type A contract, "if you prepay all that medical care and die within the first few years in the community, you would have been better off with fee-for-service," says James Ciprich, wealth manager at RegentAtlantic Capital, in Morristown, N.J.

Last edited by TuborgP; 01-09-2017 at 01:24 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,254 posts, read 8,548,360 times
Reputation: 35684
Quote:
Originally Posted by honobob View Post
I did say "maybe" and it was about people who chose NOT to have LTCi because they wanted the money for their ABLE BODIED KIDS.

I'm not the only person that has pointed out the financial problems that come with putting your kids college fund, etc. over their own retirement planning, etc.

The thing is that probably no one will pay over $100,000 in LTCi premiums! That will barely cover the cost for one year TODAY. If you can afford that over 20-30 years why wouldn't you? I also think MOST children would rather hear that there is a monetary plan when you enter a SNF vs. an inheritance of maybe $100,000 less. If it is the child spending the parent's money they'll see how short a month can seem when you are writing $5000-$10,000 checks each month.

The thing people seem to gloss over on these LTCi threads is the CARE part. I think I may be the only poster that brings that up. That $100,000 in not the all inclusive Club Med plan. Sure, like Mathjak you don't want to impoverish a spouse or a special needs child but to me the CARE is the thing that I am insuring for.

Being able to pay for your care will get you into places that Medicaid won't and will keep you in when the Medicaid bed is no more. When I was looking for my father there were places that I walked in and right back out. Is the care the same for Medicaid and self pay people in the same facility? Well, first if you are on Medicaid your assets have been exhausted and you are on an allowance of about $35. With my policy paying the bulk of the care I'll have over $10,000 a month extra. Some of that will get me a private room. Trust me, visitors will be more likely to keep visiting and stay longer if you are in a private room. I'll be able to have a masseuse and even paid company if I want/need it. Guess which patient the staff will gravitate to.

Now my fathers "extras" were provided by me but as a self paid patient his room was located at the very end of hallway with a patio outside. The Medicaid beds were along the main hallway with all the noise/smells that that involves.
You must be joking! At the rate I was quoted I'll have paid in more than $125k by the time I'm 75 (that's about 20 years)! That's with 5% premium increases each year but no other lump increases. I'll have put in more than $250k by the time I'm 85...and I have some very long-lived and healthy relatives.

As for a masseuse and "paid company" I guess I haven't planned for that kind of "happy ending".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2017, 04:36 PM
 
Location: SF Bay & Diamond Head
1,779 posts, read 1,420,794 times
Reputation: 1971
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
You must be joking! At the rate I was quoted I'll have paid in more than $125k by the time I'm 75 (that's about 20 years)! That's with 5% premium increases each year but no other lump increases. I'll have put in more than $250k by the time I'm 85...and I have some very long-lived and healthy relatives.

As for a masseuse and "paid company" I guess I haven't planned for that kind of "happy ending".
Well maybe you are getting screwed. Just not the way you prefer. Your rate seems 60% higher than what I've seen posted. $520 a month at 55 would require some figgering. I'm only paying a little over $300 a month same as MathJak. Geez, you might think about starting to smoke. Even the OP stated his quotes were $300ish.

Last edited by honobob; 01-09-2017 at 05:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top