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Old 01-05-2017, 11:08 AM
71,584 posts, read 71,730,589 times
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all the tools and methods for retaining assets are purposely left in place .

the states do not want both the person needing care and the impoverished stay at home spouse needing public assistance .

our tax system works the same way . your fair share of taxes is whatever you can legally figure out you owe using the allowed tools and methods .

the states are hoping to get more people with assets buying policy's. they know these folks will legally shield assets and income so by offering the plans they save you the hassle of having to do a thing . they now at least get a chance to get ahead through keeping unused premiums.

Last edited by mathjak107; 01-05-2017 at 11:23 AM..
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:13 PM
2,633 posts, read 3,375,197 times
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Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
our partnership plan is something our state put in place . in exchange for our expensive premiums they agree to not look at assets nor restrict income once the insurance runs out .

there is no look back , no recovery nor anything else on their behalf as long as you pay the premiums . those unspent premiums go to funding that medicaid .

you don't have to like the deal , this is what our state wanted . they even invented a new form of medicaid for the plans called extended medicaid .

it does away with all the normal restrictions and right to recovery .

most states today offer state partnership plans . they do not all offer total asset protection but they do offer dollar for a dollar plans .

they are cheaper but only protect what medicaid spends . so if they spend 500k on your care only 500k in assets is protected .

ny offers both full asset protection and dollar for dollar partnership plans .

our plan cost my wife and i a total of 8k a year for both of us .

we get back a 1600.00 state tax credit plus whatever we can deduct on federal . so there is a price to pay for that total protection .

homes are 120k -140k a year in our area . we took 350 a day inflation adjusted by 5% a year . but it is really the perks after we are paying for , not the 3 years coverage

Thanks for this explanation. How unusual. I've never heard of a state "partnership" plan like this.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:27 PM
825 posts, read 564,671 times
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My mother bought LTCi for herself decades before she would come to need it. At about 69, she started to have problems with anxiety and panic attacks. After awhile, it was clear that it was not safe for her to continue living in her own place, even after my brother moved in to help her out. She would forget to take her medication, forget that she had already taken her medication, leave the stove on, and so on. Plus my brother had to leave her to go to work.

By age 70, my mother moved from a very high COL state to a very low COL state and entered an assisted living facility near other family members. After about a year, she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and moved to a LTC facility where more care was available than in the assisted living facility. These facilities were located side by side in a very small town. The care was good because caregivers were looking after their own elderly relatives and the elderly relatives of their friends and neighbors. Family members popped in daily to visit residents and bring treats, read aloud, and generally visit.

At this point, after some pushing and insistent phone calls, her LTCi came through and covered her expenses in the LTC facility. In 2010, in a very low COL state, these expenses were over $4k/month. I know that in high COL areas, this kind of LTC costs thousands more per month. My mother only made it about 3 years in the LTC facility before she died. Alzheimer's consumed her whole body (wasting) and mind so rapidly I couldn't believe it. But the LTCi she owned stepped up and paid what they had committed to pay.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
Thanks for this explanation. How unusual. I've never heard of a state "partnership" plan like this.
just about all states have them now but the terms vary as well as the perks .

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Old 01-05-2017, 04:21 PM
Location: Central IL
15,238 posts, read 8,527,906 times
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Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
just about all states have them now but the terms vary as well as the perks .

Nice to know:

Non-Partnership States


States must amend their Medicaid laws to include the Partnership program.

Some states take longer to do this so policies sold in those states are still non-Partnership policies (as are group plans such as the Federal LTC plan, etc).

If you live in a non-Partnership state you can buy a policy now and replace it with a Partnership policy when they become available; or you can buy a policy now and later add coverage that will qualify it for Partnership; or you can wait.

The caveats to waiting are:

Your health may change making you uninsurable.
Companies increase rates for new applicants meaning the same benefits will cost more.

...another great reason to live in IL!
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:30 PM
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the company's are very strict as far as who they accept. they came to our house and did full blood and urine work ups , drug testing ,aids testing and gave us memory tests .

i am prediabetic now and that cost me a 1k surcharge in rates . had i done this 2 years ago i would have been okay . if you are over weight you are out . our broker is heavy and was denied himself .
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:16 PM
Location: Chicago, IL
545 posts, read 631,001 times
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My father purchased LTCi for both of my parents through his work. I do not know what his premiums were. He lived a long and healthy life and died without using the benefits. However, my mother has severe dementia from strokes (and is, unfortunately for her, physically healthy other than her dementia). She had in-home care for about 2.5 years, and has been in a nursing home / memory support facility for nearly three years. It has been very good to have the policy. Especially in the nursing home setting, when the facility (not my father) sends the monthly documentation to the insurance company, the service has been seamless. It covers approximately 1/3 of her expensive costs every month. The company is CNA. Unfortunately, she will reach her cap sometime this summer, I believe.

Quite some time ago, I worked on preparing an annual accounting for a guardianship of an individual who had suffered a closed-head injury. Seeing the difference that the monthly influx of LTC payments made in that guardianship (for this ward who was young and healthy, aside from his injury) was what prompted me to insist that my spouse and I buy policies while we were young. We've not yet had to use them, but I am glad to have them, in case.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:01 PM
Status: "Re-edit status" (set 18 days ago)
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
4,174 posts, read 1,898,828 times
Reputation: 3200
Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate View Post
OP's question is a great one. I too will be following to learn what other's have experienced when time to use it
Op's question may be good. But those who are using LTCi are not going to be answering it. Only the caregivers, financiers, and the family/friends will be responding.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:14 PM
10,817 posts, read 8,063,256 times
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I've posted before that my mother had a LTC policy purchased in the 1980s and utilized it when she entered assisted living in 2007.
The ALC admin was shocked at how liberal the policy was, called it a "Rolls Royce" that you can't get anymore (or you couldn't in 2007, not sure about today): no waiting period or deductible, no maximum, etc.
We did have to wait about 3 months for the benefits to kick in, but they paid retroactively to the day she entered ALC.

Even so, when all was said and done the total amount the policy paid out was only a fraction of what she had paid in over 20 years. She was only in assisted living about 7 months before she passed. It would have taken 4+ years (if memory serves) for her to recoup what she had paid in premiums. That's without even considering interest she would have earned had she invested/banked it.

Average length of stay is quite short in ALCs, less than one year. That's backed up by data as well as my own observations. 10 years ago, LTC policies only paid for care in facilities, not for home care. That might not be true today.

One length-of-stay exception is for dementia. My MIL, who has dementia, is headed into her 4th year in assisted living. Upon until last summer she did ok in regular ALC, but now we've had to move her to long-term memory care which of course is higher. She doesn't have a policy or a work pension but we cover costs with her revenue stream, which consists of her widow SS benefit, her Veterans A&A pension, and rental income on her home. So far, so good. We haven't had to dip into her modest (70k) savings so far.

Last edited by biscuitmom; 01-05-2017 at 08:31 PM..
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:13 AM
71,584 posts, read 71,730,589 times
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hopefully when you have insurance you always pay out more than you get .

things we insure against are the things that have very small chances of happening but since they have to happen to someone ,if it is us they can be devastating and create impoverishment .

odds of dying young are many times more minuscule than utilizing long term care yet we insure when we are young and have family's . odds of our house burning down is very very tiny yet most of us have fire insurance .

statistics mean nothing to us , since things either happen to us or they don't . they have to happen to someone , we just don't know who.

so we insure against the things that if they happened to us would be life changing for those involved . we just hope we pay for nothing and the chosen one is not us .

statistics play no roll with us humans .all that matters is if it is us or not us on the wrong side of the statistic .

most of us plan to 90-95 in our retirement calculations whether we think we will live that long or not . someone will , we just don't know who so we have to assume it is us or face the consequences of being wrong .

Last edited by mathjak107; 01-06-2017 at 03:05 AM..
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