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Old 01-06-2017, 03:10 AM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
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i mentioned in another thread , the fact that money magazine did a feature story on us years ago .

they wanted to put their team of pro's against me since i did all my own planning .

i wanted to self insure and they were against it for so many reasons .in the end i realized they were right .

most of those who say they are self insuring really have no plan . they hope they don't need care and they hope they have the funds .

but once the stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode those funds become a battle ground usually .

the issue with self insuring is that like any insurance :

you need the funds to cover you day 1 . you have to invest that insurance money in a safe and secure fashion . it can not just be thrown in the pool of money generating your income since that assumes it can always go to zero doing so generating that income without a snf bill ..

to self insure properly means safe low returns on that money as the money is kept safe and secure just like an insurer would do . .

for just a small percentage of the gains from keeping our money invested normally we can pay for a full blown , inflation adjusted policy that covers 3 years in a snf or 6 years assisted living or in home care .

so we ended up going the policy route .

most of our attorney's work today is the self insurer's . they are scrambling at the last minute trying to preserve assets and to protect the income of the stay at home spouse . that stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode once the realization hits that if things go on long enough impoverishment is the only answer .

it is rare that someone needs intensive snf care and self insuring ends up being looked at as self insuring and not just a vicious assault on assets than can end in impoverishment for both spouses .

Last edited by mathjak107; 01-06-2017 at 03:49 AM..
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:32 AM
 
1,109 posts, read 1,820,584 times
Reputation: 4692
I've filed a claim for my mother and John Hancock continues to pay. After I filed the claim--she'd had a stroke--they sent a nurse to assess her. The claim was approved, the facility where she was being treated was approved and every month the facility submits an invoice and the insurance money is deposited in her account. I haven't had any trouble at all with the claim.

Her monthly premiums were about $300. As soon as her claim was approved, monthly premiums were suspended. The max payout is $197,000. She is now in skilled nursing and LTC pays about $5500/month, which a bit less than half of the monthly charges. She purchased this policy in 2000 and approved every inflation increase they offered.
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,253 posts, read 8,543,297 times
Reputation: 35677
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
Op's question may be good. But those who are using LTCi are not going to be answering it. Only the caregivers, financiers, and the family/friends will be responding.
I have no problem with a caregiver answering! But they also have to be the person who knows what they are are paying in terms of premium level as well as what is coming back to them in terms of benefits.

Aren't there any "kids" in that position?
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Old 01-06-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Prescott Valley,az summer/east valley Az winter
2,042 posts, read 3,629,170 times
Reputation: 7884
My grandmother spent 8 years in a home not recognizing anyone~ the farm was spent and all the kids chipped in every month for her care. Mother bought a LTCI plan that covered most of her care and we were thrilled. She spent 7 years in LTC but we really do not know how she liked it as she never spoke a word during that time...we hoped she at least recognized us. We did get an inheritance. I now have LTCI policy. Sometimes I think I'm getting too forgetful also but I'm happy that if I slip I will be taken care of without being a huge burden on my kids.


As far as qualifying I did get a call asking about a recent hospitalization I had~ when I answered " it was due to a workplace accident " lady on other side of call said "you are accepted"
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:02 AM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,880,403 times
Reputation: 11710
My SIL is a retired geriatric social worker. Prior to retiring she was a supervisor in that area. She was invaluable handling all of the issues related to Assisted Living, Limited Nursing care for their parents. She still works part time for managing clients of social services who have no one to manage their affairs. The irony is if you have no one you get a expert, if you do, you get their effort for better or worse.

There are a lot of good comments and insights posted in the thread. LTCi will not cover everything. That will probably be for the bed and the basic services needed. Medical care will often be dependent on Medicare and other insurance and just plain cash.

As MJ indicated you need money for the elimination period which can for some be a chunk of change not planned for.

Be careful when you are thinking about self insuring. Don't count home equity because it could be a while before you sell your house. Be careful how much of your tax shelter funds you count because that could be a heck of a tax bill. Private Nursing Care homes without Medicaid beds will probably be very selective who they admit and will want a guarantee of being able to pay for a minimum time period determined by them.
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,252 posts, read 6,345,210 times
Reputation: 9868
I'm budgeting 6-figure non taxable event in 10 years plus for my husband, none of them base on my portfolio, not depend on stocks rise or fall. For me, my future pension will pay for my LTC premium after I turn 62, but only for 3 years. I did research and the average nursing home is less than 3 years. But I got this policy when I was you gist, 50, I think I might need something around 80ish.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:57 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,151,461 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i mentioned in another thread , the fact that money magazine did a feature story on us years ago .

they wanted to put their team of pro's against me since i did all my own planning .

i wanted to self insure and they were against it for so many reasons .in the end i realized they were right .

most of those who say they are self insuring really have no plan . they hope they don't need care and they hope they have the funds .

but once the stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode those funds become a battle ground usually .

the issue with self insuring is that like any insurance :

you need the funds to cover you day 1 . you have to invest that insurance money in a safe and secure fashion . it can not just be thrown in the pool of money generating your income since that assumes it can always go to zero doing so generating that income without a snf bill ..

to self insure properly means safe low returns on that money as the money is kept safe and secure just like an insurer would do . .

for just a small percentage of the gains from keeping our money invested normally we can pay for a full blown , inflation adjusted policy that covers 3 years in a snf or 6 years assisted living or in home care .

so we ended up going the policy route .

most of our attorney's work today is the self insurer's . they are scrambling at the last minute trying to preserve assets and to protect the income of the stay at home spouse . that stay at home spouse goes in to survival mode once the realization hits that if things go on long enough impoverishment is the only answer .

it is rare that someone needs intensive snf care and self insuring ends up being looked at as self insuring and not just a vicious assault on assets than can end in impoverishment for both spouses .
Well, our culture generally hates the insurance industry (some of this rightfully justified). Some people can't get themselves past the emotional block of "paying the crooks." Obviously the way to conquer the block is to look at it unemotionally as you have. But the vast majority of people are incapable of it.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,253 posts, read 8,543,297 times
Reputation: 35677
A lot of people are citing that people are only in nursing homes an average of 3 years...now (it used to be a longer but I think those years of care are just in a different category now).

That's all well and good - but I don't know that people go straight from perfect health to a nursing home. How long are these folks getting home health care? And how is that paid for? I know LTCi covers it, but otherwise it is out of pocket - Medicare won't cover, will it? How many hours a week at what rate can be afforded before that final year in the nursing home?
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:18 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 8,069,111 times
Reputation: 17029
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
A lot of people are citing that people are only in nursing homes an average of 3 years...now (it used to be a longer but I think those years of care are just in a different category now).
Actually the average time spent in nursing homes is less than one year.
The 3-year "Any Services" figure includes 1-2 years paid or unpaid care at home.
source: How Much Care Will You Need? - Long-Term Care Information
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:34 PM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,880,403 times
Reputation: 11710
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
Actually the average time spent in nursing homes is less than one year.
The 3-year "Any Services" figure includes 1-2 years paid or unpaid care at home.
source: How Much Care Will You Need? - Long-Term Care Information
That is one of the key parts of coverage home care. How much per day and what is the annual and lifetime cap of your insurance.
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