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Old 01-09-2017, 01:10 PM
 
9,893 posts, read 3,273,637 times
Reputation: 7254

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopHillers View Post
The problem with your argument is that Socialism doesn't work. Never has, never will.
and the problem with your argument is that you wrongly conflate public healthcare with socialism. Dont worry though, a lot of people with limited understanding of economics and politics make that mistake.

Although to be frank more often than not those espousing that position know full well that they are misrepresenting the facts.


So let me help you figure it out.


Public transit
public libraries
public healthcare
public parks
public education
public policing
public lighting.


do you see how this works? A capitalist nation can have public services such as education and healthcare and not be considered a socialist nation. In fact if you doubt it, look it up and learn what makes socialism different from social programs.....


But i am sure you are deeply entrenched, many americans are. I strongly doubt you will take the time to figure it out....
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:14 PM
 
9,893 posts, read 3,273,637 times
Reputation: 7254
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
You might want to do some googling. We pay the highest FICA tax already, even higher than Swizertland.
you might want to do some reading.

I clearly said TAXES, not fica. You need to consider ALL taxes paid it is absolutely pointless to pick one tax and compare that internationally. Funding methods differ.


in the USA we work LESS days for our governments than people in most other developed country. Sure if want to compare the USA with small tax havens you might find an island or two where taxes dont even exist..

check out the chart
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...nternationally

Last edited by evilcart; 01-09-2017 at 01:18 PM.. Reason: add link
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
207 posts, read 131,952 times
Reputation: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
and the problem with your argument is that you wrongly conflate public healthcare with socialism. Dont worry though, a lot of people with limited understanding of economics and politics make that mistake.

Although to be frank more often than not those espousing that position know full well that they are misrepresenting the facts.


So let me help you figure it out.


Public transit
public libraries
public healthcare
public parks
public education
public policing
public lighting.


do you see how this works? A capitalist nation can have public services such as education and healthcare and not be considered a socialist nation. In fact if you doubt it, look it up and learn what makes socialism different from social programs.....


But i am sure you are deeply entrenched, many americans are. I strongly doubt you will take the time to figure it out....
“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.” - Winston Churchill
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,572 posts, read 17,553,447 times
Reputation: 27640
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogmom13 View Post
Seriously? Very, VERY few people in the U.S. get emergency care for free. Unless it is a life-threatening emergency, if you don't have insurance you better have a credit card.
Those who can't/won't pay ultimately get their bill written off.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:22 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,216 posts, read 6,320,879 times
Reputation: 9827
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
you might want to do some reading.

I clearly said TAXES, not fica. You need to consider ALL taxes paid it is absolutely pointless to pick one tax and compare that internationally. Funding methods differ.


in the USA we work LESS days for our governments than people in most other developed country. Sure if want to compare the USA with small tax havens you might find an island or two where taxes dont even exist..

check out the chart
How do US taxes compare internationally? | Tax Policy Center
I have fixed my post. Here is the link. We pay 2.5 times the average salary. More than other industrialized nations. Like UK pay 1.2 of average salary.
Raising the Social Security Payroll Tax Cap
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:24 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,216 posts, read 6,320,879 times
Reputation: 9827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Those who can't/won't pay ultimately get their bill written off.
This is why the poor illegals or not don't even bother to sign up for ACA, they pay nothing.
I get my bills reduced if I call and complain, even with insurance. So I know others have it free.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:27 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,216 posts, read 6,320,879 times
Reputation: 9827
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
and the problem with your argument is that you wrongly conflate public healthcare with socialism. Dont worry though, a lot of people with limited understanding of economics and politics make that mistake.

Although to be frank more often than not those espousing that position know full well that they are misrepresenting the facts.


So let me help you figure it out.


Public transit
public libraries
public healthcare
public parks
public education
public policing
public lighting.


do you see how this works? A capitalist nation can have public services such as education and healthcare and not be considered a socialist nation. In fact if you doubt it, look it up and learn what makes socialism different from social programs.....


But i am sure you are deeply entrenched, many americans are. I strongly doubt you will take the time to figure it out....
You pay for those too. I pay for public parking, public transit, public libraries, I wouldn't get carry away on the public part.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:31 PM
 
9,893 posts, read 3,273,637 times
Reputation: 7254
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopHillers View Post
“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.” - Winston Churchill


Winston Churchill,


“The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all. That is clear: Disease must be attacked, whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman simply on the ground that it is the enemy; and it must be attacked just in the sane way as the fire brigade will give its full assistance to the humblest cottage as readily as to the most important mansion….Our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country, irrespective of means, age, sex, or occupation, shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available.”


Winston was a HUGE supporting of pubic healthcare and Winston opposed socialism with all his heart.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:40 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,216 posts, read 6,320,879 times
Reputation: 9827
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
Winston Churchill,


“The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all. That is clear: Disease must be attacked, whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman simply on the ground that it is the enemy; and it must be attacked just in the sane way as the fire brigade will give its full assistance to the humblest cottage as readily as to the most important mansion….Our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country, irrespective of means, age, sex, or occupation, shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available.”


Winston was a HUGE supporting of pubic healthcare and Winston opposed socialism with all his heart.
Maybe you should include the link of where you get that quote from. Here it is. According to this link, where you copied the above text, Churchill was not an advocate for NHS. But he was not among the advocates.

https://richardlangworth.com/health1
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:47 PM
 
9,893 posts, read 3,273,637 times
Reputation: 7254
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
You pay for those too. I pay for public parking, public transit, public libraries, I wouldn't get carry away on the public part.
Our government pays for the vast majority of public parking, Our governments pay for libraries not you. they are free for all to USE . members of the public are sometimes asked pay usage fees for ELECTIVE use of public utilities.


The fed / state /county/ city raise funds that pay for our public services, some services have useage fees, some do not, but the ones that have fees tend to be discretionary services such as convenient parking . As to transit, do you really think public transit is fully funded by your ticket payments?

In fact transit is very much like healthcare, providing it to everyone even at a loss , creates gains for everyone. Just like providing Healthcare for 100% of the public would mean businesses would be unburdened, it means emergency rooms could be profitable and uncrowded, it means workers would miss far fewer days and have longer productive lives. But those benefits take decades to work through and politics in the USA don't allow for anything that takes more than a couple of years for the public to see clear and plain gains.


Just because you were told public healthcare is bad does not make it true.


It is affordable, it works and it makes life much better when you dont have to worry about healthcare just cause you lose a job or get sick.

Last edited by evilcart; 01-09-2017 at 02:02 PM..
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