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Old 01-09-2017, 02:00 PM
 
9,893 posts, read 3,284,238 times
Reputation: 7254

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Maybe you should include the link of where you get that quote from. Here it is. According to this link, where you copied the above text, Churchill was not an advocate for NHS. But he was not among the advocates.

https://richardlangworth.com/health1
actually that quote is widely available


Furthermore Churchill DID support public healthcare, he railed against wasteful and over spending, but he DID support public healthcare for all. Just not unfettered , and frankly who would support wasteful spending.



There are dozens of pro public healthcare statements from Winston, many of them focus on his belief that a healthy workforce is a productive and happy workforce.



Sorry to rain on your parade mate.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:00 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,307 posts, read 6,369,679 times
Reputation: 9937
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
Our government pays for the vast majority of public parking, Our governments pay for libraries not you. they are free for all to USE . You the member of the public is asking to sometimes pay usage fees for ELECTIVE use of public utilities.


The fed / state /county/ city raise funds that pay for our public services, some services have useage fees, some do not, but the ones that have fees tend to be discretionary services such as convenient parking . As to transit, do you really think public transit is fully funded by your ticket payments?

In fact transit is very much like healthcare, providing it to everyone even at a loss , creates gains for everyone. Just like providing Healthcare for 100% of the public would mean businesses would be unburdened, it means emergency rooms could be profitable and uncrowded, it means workers would miss far fewer days and have longer productive lives. But those benefits take decades to work through and politics in the USA don't allow for anything that takes more than a couple of years for the public to see clear and plain gains.


Just because you were told public healthcare is bad does not make it true.


It is affordable, it works and it makes life much better when you dont have to worry about healthcare just cause you lose a job or get sick.
In theory but in real life it isn't. Beach parking is $4-$6 for a 3-4 hours. Public transit is not free either. My definition of free is zero.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:03 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,166,929 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Look, here's the problem. People are living longer than they were when the program was designed back in the 1930's. So, logically something has to give. You can raise employment taxes. You can raise the eligibility age for social security. Or, you can cut benefits.

What you can't do is nothing at all.

I favor a combination of things. I'd raise payroll taxes 1% in .25% increments over a four year period. I'd raise the age of retirement gradually to about age 70 in an incremental fashion as well. I'd do it based on birth date and I'd increase it every five years until retirement age was either 69 or 70. I might consider a special tax on people like myself who are going to be hitting retirement in the next 10 to 15 years. Perhaps, we should pay an extra 1% towards payroll taxes above what the younger generations are paying.

What we can't do is sit around and delude ourselves or worse yet blame Congress for spending the money in the trust fund. All that blaming isn't going to do anything to fix the problem. What isn't acceptable is to let the program go bankrupt. This is a country where private pensions have basically disappeared and millions will depend on social security as a major source of retirement income.

I want it fixed for my generation and younger generations as well. There is been too much dithering around and all the politicians got through this last election campaign without even addressing the issue. That just makes me ill.
People are living longer and the demographics are moving in the wrong direction. The draw is going to increase for several years, as the Boomers plus even some Xers start to retire. Meanwhile, the working population to feed the cash flow is headed downward.

Simple math.

The remaining workers, if fewer in number (and, I might add, lower income than past generations) must work longer for the equation to balance.

Yep, it sucks.

But it's reality.

If you were born after 1960, guess which part of the equation you are!
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:04 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,307 posts, read 6,369,679 times
Reputation: 9937
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
actually that quote is widely available


Furthermore Churchill DID support public healthcare, he railed against wasteful and over spending, but he DID support public healthcare for all. Just not unfettered , and frankly who would support wasteful spending.



There are dozens of pro public healthcare statements from Winston, many of them focus on his belief that a healthy workforce is a productive and happy workforce.



Sorry to rain on your parade mate.
No you twisted his words, read the link again mate.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:06 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,166,929 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
one reasonable plan i saw had 3 changes .

increase payroll taxes a little bit
increase the cap on payroll taxes so higher incomes can pay more and get more
extend the retirement age to 69 over the next 48 years .

we are adding 1 year of life every 4 years approx. so 48 years from now life expectancy will be such that at 69 the masses will still have the same number of "healthy " years in retirement .
Bu ... bu ... but ... I know a guy ... he died at his desk at 61.9 years old.

Plus, all the (heavy smoker, fat eating, zero exercise) people in my family all died at 70.

Statistics? Actuary tables? Bah ... humbug!

/ sarc
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,651 posts, read 17,632,423 times
Reputation: 27754
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
This is why the poor illegals or not don't even bother to sign up for ACA, they pay nothing.
I get my bills reduced if I call and complain, even with insurance. So I know others have it free.
I remember seeing a story not along where a person had an MRI done and ended up paying in cash, at a greatly discounted rate. Amusingly, the medical system is not even structured to have people in cash.

The cost of the procedure is not the price you pay - there is a significant delta there.

The well to do can afford the cost of good medical care, even if their medical insurance isn't so great. The poor simply don't pay and get the cost of their health care written off. The middle classes with skyrocketing insurance costs, reduced coverage levels, and employers dropping health insurance offerings are the ones getting squeezed.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,763,041 times
Reputation: 32309
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
Our government pays for the vast majority of public parking, Our governments pay for libraries not you. they are free for all to USE . members of the public are sometimes asked pay usage fees for ELECTIVE use of public utilities.


The fed / state /county/ city raise funds that pay for our public services, some services have useage fees, some do not, but the ones that have fees tend to be discretionary services such as convenient parking . As to transit, do you really think public transit is fully funded by your ticket payments?

.......................

What a blatant example of missing the point! "Our government" pays for this, that, and the other, you say. Why sure! And where does the government derive its income? From taxes. So it is the collective taxpayer who pays for this, that, and the other, not some mysterious entity called "the government".


Your example of public transit proves the opposite of the point you erroneously think you're making. The taxpayer pays for the non-ticket portion of public transit, which is typically more than 50% of the cost.


If I were to add up my total annual tax burden, which I did once for some thread, it would be in excess of $20,000 per year. (Federal income tax, state income tax, property taxes, user fees, sales taxes. The amount of sales tax would be an estimate, of course). And I am not some sort of fat cat, either; I am a retired public school teacher - middle class at best!


So it is rather irritating to be ponying up what for me is a large amount every year (although it would not be very much to an affluent person) just to have you deny that I am doing so. Get real.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:43 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,307 posts, read 6,369,679 times
Reputation: 9937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I remember seeing a story not along where a person had an MRI done and ended up paying in cash, at a greatly discounted rate. Amusingly, the medical system is not even structured to have people in cash.

The cost of the procedure is not the price you pay - there is a significant delta there.

The well to do can afford the cost of good medical care, even if their medical insurance isn't so great. The poor simply don't pay and get the cost of their health care written off. The middle classes with skyrocketing insurance costs, reduced coverage levels, and employers dropping health insurance offerings are the ones getting squeezed.
Exactly, yes the people here kept complaining the poor will be left on the side curb. It's the middle class who are hurting.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,754 posts, read 26,809,877 times
Reputation: 20408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
A bill was sent to the floor of the house (HR 6489) recently that would raise the Social Security retirement age to 69. It is common knowledge that being unemployed and over 50 is a nightmare and less known that suicide rates of people between 55 and 60 took a jump during the last recession.

Does Congress have any sense of reality when it comes to the SS retirement age and the reality of age discrimination?
I do not know anyone that is planning on having social security support them in retirement. The entire program was designed as a supplement for those that failed to save for the future. It was never designed as the complete retirement package.

I read with amusement the information that I get from Social Security each year. I do not know how anyone is supposed to live off the amount that they would give me when I am retired. Would not support me in retirement.

My thought is to close down the program and let me have the money that is taken from me. Let me invest it. I can certainly do better than the Government is doing.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,134 posts, read 13,651,906 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Hospitals are not allowed to turn sick people away. That's why they push for ACA so hospitals can get paid.
Hospitals can and do turn sick people away all day long...EMTALA requires that hospitals provide emergency care only, read it for yourself: https://www.acep.org/news-media-top-banner/emtala/
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