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Old 01-09-2017, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,209 posts, read 13,700,418 times
Reputation: 22256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I remember seeing a story not along where a person had an MRI done and ended up paying in cash, at a greatly discounted rate. Amusingly, the medical system is not even structured to have people in cash.
The cost of the procedure is not the price you pay - there is a significant delta there.
The well to do can afford the cost of good medical care, even if their medical insurance isn't so great. The poor simply don't pay and get the cost of their health care written off. The middle classes with skyrocketing insurance costs, reduced coverage levels, and employers dropping health insurance offerings are the ones getting squeezed.
It is very unusual to get a discount for "paying cash" for an MRI or any other medical procedure, what usually happens if you are uninsured is that you pay the highest rate they charge. They are under no obligation to offer you lower, negotiated rates offered to insurance companies.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:22 PM
 
8,773 posts, read 10,883,787 times
Reputation: 12827
Read recently people are healthier the longer they work;working past 65 means less dementia even. I'll look for the study.


http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archiv...research-shows
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:27 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,419 posts, read 6,417,350 times
Reputation: 10002
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Hospitals can and do turn sick people away all day long...EMTALA requires that hospitals provide emergency care only, read it for yourself: https://www.acep.org/news-media-top-banner/emtala/
That's what I said in a few posts before in this thread, emergency care at hospital, that's how you get care if you don't have insurance and you kept saying this and that. Somebody even said they close emergency room which I had doubt.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,419 posts, read 6,417,350 times
Reputation: 10002
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It is very unusual to get a discount for "paying cash" for an MRI or any other medical procedure, what usually happens if you are uninsured is that you pay the highest rate they charge. They are under no obligation to offer you lower, negotiated rates offered to insurance companies.
I did negotiate twice and both time the amount was lowered. The bills went to me, I cash the checks and spent it. I called them and asked for discount so I could pay immediately on credit card. Some do lower and some don't. But you have to ask.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:38 PM
 
105 posts, read 94,084 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
I do not know anyone that is planning on having social security support them in retirement. The entire program was designed as a supplement for those that failed to save for the future. It was never designed as the complete retirement package.

I read with amusement the information that I get from Social Security each year. I do not know how anyone is supposed to live off the amount that they would give me when I am retired. Would not support me in retirement.

My thought is to close down the program and let me have the money that is taken from me. Let me invest it. I can certainly do better than the Government is doing.
Social Security provides for a good part of MOST peoples retirement income. Most people I know get about half of their retirement income from SS and the other half from pensions and 401k and IRA withdrawals. Without Social Security most Americans would not be able to retire. (But of course they may not be able to work when employers kick them out and physical problems limit their ability to work.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:57 PM
 
15,542 posts, read 4,110,381 times
Reputation: 11172
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
You might want to do some googling. We pay the highest FICA tax already, even higher than some industrialized nations.
Raising the Social Security Payroll Tax Cap
See? This is what I mean.

The Heritage Foundation, Cato institute and so many other "think tanks" were started and/or financed by BIG BUSINESS for the express reason of creating a false narrative....just so they would be looked at as "one side" of the argument.

This is not some made-up conspiracy theory. The **** Brothers, for example, ran the Cato Institute and "owned" it.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...greement/?_r=0

There are about 7 various big business lobbies that own ALL of DC - from the Club for Growth to the Business Roundtable to others. They call the tunes - ALL the tunes - and they outspend and out-lobby "the people" at a ratio of 20 to 1 or greater.

Then people like you quote them. Perfect. That's exactly why they invested billions in the cause.

Until people can think...and I have my doubts that will ever happen...we are going to get more and more fleeced. If you think Rex Tillerson and the other billionaires Trump is putting in charge go home at night and worry about pensions for working people - you have some surprises coming.

Again, this is not a conspiracy. These people are 95% above board. They have offices, publications, think-tanks, non=profits, PACS and every other trick that money and influence can buy. They haven't lost a single battle in the last 35 years. Not one.

Example: Everyone knew the Bush Tax were going to create a vast debt and deficit. It was also clear that 80% of the benefit of them went to the very wealthy. Yet they passed - why?

Worse yet - when they came up to expire (which they should have), the GOP held Obama hostage for big parts of the benefits to the super-wealthy. This was just a few years back.

This is the government our voters and citizens want...because they put up with it. Now they think the "solution" is to do MUCH more of the same and maybe the billionaires will trickle down on them.

Really amazing when you think about it. In real life, we'd learn from mistake and correct in a direction toward The People. In this alternative universe, we dig deeper into a hole.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:59 PM
 
15,542 posts, read 4,110,381 times
Reputation: 11172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat View Post
Read recently people are healthier the longer they work;working past 65 means less dementia even. I'll look for the study.


Working longer may lead to a longer life, new OSU research shows | News and Research Communications | Oregon State University
They'll come up with plenty of reasons why you should work until you drop....

What they are not saying is that if you volunteered, practiced your art/gardening/caretaking and did actual human things you'd be as good or better when it comes to warding off demetia.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:06 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,419 posts, read 6,417,350 times
Reputation: 10002
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
See? This is what I mean.

The Heritage Foundation, Cato institute and so many other "think tanks" were started and/or financed by BIG BUSINESS for the express reason of creating a false narrative....just so they would be looked at as "one side" of the argument.

This is not some made-up conspiracy theory. The **** Brothers, for example, ran the Cato Institute and "owned" it.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...greement/?_r=0

There are about 7 various big business lobbies that own ALL of DC - from the Club for Growth to the Business Roundtable to others. They call the tunes - ALL the tunes - and they outspend and out-lobby "the people" at a ratio of 20 to 1 or greater.

Then people like you quote them. Perfect. That's exactly why they invested billions in the cause.

Until people can think...and I have my doubts that will ever happen...we are going to get more and more fleeced. If you think Rex Tillerson and the other billionaires Trump is putting in charge go home at night and worry about pensions for working people - you have some surprises coming.

Again, this is not a conspiracy. These people are 95% above board. They have offices, publications, think-tanks, non=profits, PACS and every other trick that money and influence can buy. They haven't lost a single battle in the last 35 years. Not one.

Example: Everyone knew the Bush Tax were going to create a vast debt and deficit. It was also clear that 80% of the benefit of them went to the very wealthy. Yet they passed - why?

Worse yet - when they came up to expire (which they should have), the GOP held Obama hostage for big parts of the benefits to the super-wealthy. This was just a few years back.

This is the government our voters and citizens want...because they put up with it. Now they think the "solution" is to do MUCH more of the same and maybe the billionaires will trickle down on them.

Really amazing when you think about it. In real life, we'd learn from mistake and correct in a direction toward The People. In this alternative universe, we dig deeper into a hole.
ah the blame Bush crowd. Obama had no trouble double the debt on his own. Why do you think Trump is elected and the so call blue wall was pierced.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:09 PM
 
15,542 posts, read 4,110,381 times
Reputation: 11172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The cost of the procedure is not the price you pay - there is a significant delta there.

The well to do can afford the cost of good medical care, even if their medical insurance isn't so great. The poor simply don't pay and get the cost of their health care written off. The middle classes with skyrocketing insurance costs, reduced coverage levels, and employers dropping health insurance offerings are the ones getting squeezed.
Any way you look at it the cost of health care in this country is close to 3 Trillion per year.

Divide that by 315 million and you get somewhat about 9K per person per year.

So, just as a thought experiment - say you are a solidly middle class couple with 2 kids in school in a decent burb - making, say, 100K total between the both of you (yes, that is middle class these days).

Your cost to society (lots more - this of off top of head).

2 X kids/school @11K each per year = 22K
4X people health care @9K each = 36K
4X US Citizens Security Complex @600 yer = 2400
Other Federal goodies (CDC, Science, etc) 4X 200 = 800
Local and state government (guess) 4X @1000 = 4000
--------------------------------------------------------------
Total Cost of what you are taking = Approx $67,000 per year.

And how much in total taxes are this 100K couple paying? Not 67K

So, why does this person complain? I think you will find that most people complaining - in fact, MOST PEOPLE, are not paying their way.

So, who is paying their way? This is where it gets tricky......

The largest chunk of "welfare for all people" is probably the Federal Debt - since government pays 2/3 of all health care costs, they are the ones "losing" money on the whole deal. They are the ones getting squeezed.

BUT - this is exactly by design. The wealthy - who own DC - would rather have cash in their pocket and debt in YOUR AND MY pocket.

I challenge anyone to disprove this basic premise - based on history.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,209 posts, read 13,700,418 times
Reputation: 22256
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
See? This is what I mean.

The Heritage Foundation, Cato institute and so many other "think tanks" were started and/or financed by BIG BUSINESS for the express reason of creating a false narrative....just so they would be looked at as "one side" of the argument.

This is not some made-up conspiracy theory. The **** Brothers, for example, ran the Cato Institute and "owned" it.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...greement/?_r=0

There are about 7 various big business lobbies that own ALL of DC - from the Club for Growth to the Business Roundtable to others. They call the tunes - ALL the tunes - and they outspend and out-lobby "the people" at a ratio of 20 to 1 or greater.

Then people like you quote them. Perfect. That's exactly why they invested billions in the cause.

Until people can think...and I have my doubts that will ever happen...we are going to get more and more fleeced. If you think Rex Tillerson and the other billionaires Trump is putting in charge go home at night and worry about pensions for working people - you have some surprises coming.

Again, this is not a conspiracy. These people are 95% above board. They have offices, publications, think-tanks, non=profits, PACS and every other trick that money and influence can buy. They haven't lost a single battle in the last 35 years. Not one.

Example: Everyone knew the Bush Tax were going to create a vast debt and deficit. It was also clear that 80% of the benefit of them went to the very wealthy. Yet they passed - why?

Worse yet - when they came up to expire (which they should have), the GOP held Obama hostage for big parts of the benefits to the super-wealthy. This was just a few years back.

This is the government our voters and citizens want...because they put up with it. Now they think the "solution" is to do MUCH more of the same and maybe the billionaires will trickle down on them.

Really amazing when you think about it. In real life, we'd learn from mistake and correct in a direction toward The People. In this alternative universe, we dig deeper into a hole.
Excellent post
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