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Old 01-11-2017, 05:34 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,167,316 times
Reputation: 8459

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It's very important for SS to remain under government control, and not be privatized. If it's privatized, there will be winners and losers, in investing, speculating, etc. Who is going to pay for the care of the losers? The overall effect of privatizing SS is that the government will have to pay twice. Once when it's privatized, and again when the losers are dying in the gutters, and the government and voters will feel obliged to vote money to support them.

The real reason Republicans want SS to be privatized is so they can play with the money. If they gamble with theirs, they can rely on the government and voters to rescue them if they lose. But if they win, they can get rich. It's just like the big bank bailout of 2008. The banks were motivated to gamble, because they could get rich that way, and if they lost, the government would rescue them. Republicans also want people to invest their money on Wall Street, because the people who benefit from the fees etc. of Wall Street are mostly Republicans. Privatizing SS practically forces people to put their money in Wall Street.

SS can be saved easily, with a combination of minor tax changes and minor changes in retirement age. People who can't get jobs because they're too old can be given some kind of benefit to cover that. Just enough to survive on but not enough to motivate them to retire early. And when they reach full retirement age, they should get full benefits. We could call those the gap years. Too old to work, not old enough to retire. If they get divorced, and move to an apartment, they might need roommates, because of their low gap-years income. But they can look forward to reaching full retirement age and getting full benefits.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:39 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,188 posts, read 6,301,958 times
Reputation: 9808
Where is the link to privatization of SS?
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:07 PM
 
15,065 posts, read 3,983,077 times
Reputation: 10927
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
My post is in respond to your comment against the tax favor the wealthy, the people in the blue state voted for Trump despite the railing from the left that he represents the billionaires. Obama did the same thing, but guess who got rich under his 8 years, the top 1%.
Since so few people voted - and it only took less than 1% (well less than) being fed disinformation (etc.), it's hard to say "blue states" did one thing or another.

Just as examples - PA (where I was born) is often described as philly and pittsburgh with alabama in between. Mich. has a GOP controlled state government (that saved money by poisoning Flint) - and has historically went Republican when a candidate was not conservative and was viewed as pro-biz. (reagan, etc - Mitt Romneys dad was Gov. of Mich).

Heck, even my current state of res (MA) considered the most liberal of all - we have a GOP Gov. who is very popular and Mitt was our former Gov.

You can't read many tea leaves from this election other than Russia, false news, lack of turnout and complete chaos on the GOP side (how many ran in the primary?)....just a weird set of circumstances that ended up making Trump King.

But you are correct in the abstract. Too many people vote against their own interests...or, they hear what they want to hear. My wife was in Pittsburgh last week and talking to an Uber driver. The driver said a lot of people were excited about all the coal jobs that were coming back. This was said in disbelief - because anyone with a head on their shoulders knows:
1. No coal jobs are coming back to Pittsburgh - all the factories are not only shut down, but tore down and newly developed into something else.
2. The big reason coal jobs declined there...is they have had a BOOM in natural gas (cheap).

So the reason coal is doomed is because they found something at 1/2 the price and cleaner...and tens of thousands of jobs were created (I'm not saying I am big on fracking - just that this is the case).

This is why Trump said "I love the uneducated".

I 100% understand the hopelessness of the voters who gave up...by not voting at all or by thinking chaos (Trump) would somehow magically fix our problems. Of course it won't...

This is a really good read if anyone wants to know what really killed the American Dream. No conspiracy theories here - everything documented down the last footnote.

http://amzn.to/2ilDTog
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:14 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,188 posts, read 6,301,958 times
Reputation: 9808
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Since so few people voted - and it only took less than 1% (well less than) being fed disinformation (etc.), it's hard to say "blue states" did one thing or another.

Just as examples - PA (where I was born) is often described as philly and pittsburgh with alabama in between. Mich. has a GOP controlled state government (that saved money by poisoning Flint) - and has historically went Republican when a candidate was not conservative and was viewed as pro-biz. (reagan, etc - Mitt Romneys dad was Gov. of Mich).

Heck, even my current state of res (MA) considered the most liberal of all - we have a GOP Gov. who is very popular and Mitt was our former Gov.

You can't read many tea leaves from this election other than Russia, false news, lack of turnout and complete chaos on the GOP side (how many ran in the primary?)....just a weird set of circumstances that ended up making Trump King.

But you are correct in the abstract. Too many people vote against their own interests...or, they hear what they want to hear. My wife was in Pittsburgh last week and talking to an Uber driver. The driver said a lot of people were excited about all the coal jobs that were coming back. This was said in disbelief - because anyone with a head on their shoulders knows:
1. No coal jobs are coming back to Pittsburgh - all the factories are not only shut down, but tore down and newly developed into something else.
2. The big reason coal jobs declined there...is they have had a BOOM in natural gas (cheap).

So the reason coal is doomed is because they found something at 1/2 the price and cleaner...and tens of thousands of jobs were created (I'm not saying I am big on fracking - just that this is the case).

This is why Trump said "I love the uneducated".

I 100% understand the hopelessness of the voters who gave up...by not voting at all or by thinking chaos (Trump) would somehow magically fix our problems. Of course it won't...

This is a really good read if anyone wants to know what really killed the American Dream. No conspiracy theories here - everything documented down the last footnote.

http://amzn.to/2ilDTog
Sorry, I'm not going through and reading your post. Too much rambling. This is not a political forum. It doesn't matter who voted and who not voted. The fact is that the blue wall cracked. These states are not NY nor CA where there are more wealthy people.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:18 AM
 
71,462 posts, read 71,629,249 times
Reputation: 49027
same here , i skip every politically oriented posting .
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,829 posts, read 4,940,887 times
Reputation: 17284
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
same here , i skip every politically oriented posting .
Ditto, I'm a political Atheist

I don't know why so many people have to bring the red/blue political conflict into every conversation.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:28 AM
 
71,462 posts, read 71,629,249 times
Reputation: 49027
as lewis black said , democrats are morons with bad idea's and republicans are moron's with no ideas .
except for vietnam no political party in 64 years has ever influenced my life either way . every day i put my pants on ,went to work and in the end i was responsible for everything good or bad in my life .
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,726 posts, read 26,748,770 times
Reputation: 20345
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So because they are being looked at to make sure they are not ripping off the government (which pays 2/3 of ALL health care costs), that "hurts" healthcare?

You must have not studied the health care issue too deeply. Leaving the industry alone to fleece us to their heart's content isn't going to work out too well. I, for one, want that $80 aspirin looked at HARD.

I suppose - based on your post - that you are in favor of allowing for-profit hospitals to do whatever they like with no regulations on their charges? If do, you'd probably love Rick Scott's old company which defrauded the taxpayer for the largest amounts in history. Luckily, they got caught and paid the largest fine in history - but think of how many haven't gotten caught.

THAT is why health care costs are high.
Lets first look at that fictitious $80 aspirin that you brought up.

A hospital proposes to the customer how much it is going to charge. The customer for hospitals is Insurance companies. They are the organizations that pay the bills. They are the organizations that scrutinize how much can be charged. Lets say that a hospital did charge $80 for an aspirin. The insurance company will first say that they only will pay a specific amount for an aspirin so that $80 figure gets tossed out the window anyway because everyone knows how much an aspirin costs. Almost all medication in today's world has a specific cost that almost everyone agrees on. Kind of hard to overcharge for it from what I have heard.

Lets see what is involved with getting an $80 aspirin to the patient.
The Doctor still has to order the Aspirin before anything happens.

The hospital still has to pay for the Nursing staff that will administer the Aspirin. RN's in California are more than likely BSN's or they are working on getting the BSN degree. The starting pay for a BSN is $36 an hour with many having been in the field for some time I am betting that the actual average is more like $40 an hour. If that BSN or RN has to work overtime and that happens often then the pay just went up to on average $60 an hour.

A Pharmacist will have to sign off on the aspirin for the patient. These are licensed highly educated individuals. On average our Pharmacist make over $150,000 a year.

Records need to be kept to make sure everyone knows that the patient had an aspirin. Health Information Management comes in for this reason to make sure that everyone knows what is happening with the patient and that $80 Aspirin.

Most of the medications are delivered on carts or devices with locked compartments. At our hospital we have a medical delivery system that you can place a medication or an $80 aspirin in a carrier and send it thru a tube system to a station where the Nurse can take it and deliver it to the patient. An engineering staff has to maintain the system and service it.

A hospital charge is based on all the people that handle the product.

lets say that the $80 aspirin makes it thru the Insurance companies scrutiny process. They then send us on average about 42% of what we are asking for. But as I stated aspirin in today's world already has a value that everyone has agreed on.

Since the Obama Care was enforced let me tell you what happens with all patients.

A patient comes into a hospital and they are considered an observation patient. Meaning that it has not been proved that they need to be in the hospital. As an observation patient the hospital gets to charge 25% of the normal charge although the observation patient gets full care, or 25% of the 42% that the hospital gets for a non observation patient. In fact we are not allowed to know who is an observation patient or not. After three days it will be determined if the patient will be removed from observation to in house status. If the hospital can prove that the patient should have been in house the entire time then the hospital can bill for the full amount. With the ACA all bills are scrutinized to the fullest extent by both the hospital and the insurance companies, because they sure do not want to pay us at all.

At the same time all the employees still have to be paid. We have over 2,000 employees and all of them need to be paid. Hospitals work on the thinnest of margins, a good one can bring in 2% of what they made in profit. Luckily I work for a hospital that is doing well.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,988 posts, read 13,558,751 times
Reputation: 22077
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Lets first look at that fictitious $80 aspirin that you brought up.

A hospital proposes to the customer how much it is going to charge. The customer for hospitals is Insurance companies. They are the organizations that pay the bills. They are the organizations that scrutinize how much can be charged. Lets say that a hospital did charge $80 for an aspirin. The insurance company will first say that they only will pay a specific amount for an aspirin so that $80 figure gets tossed out the window anyway because everyone knows how much an aspirin costs. Almost all medication in today's world has a specific cost that almost everyone agrees on. Kind of hard to overcharge for it from what I have heard.

Lets see what is involved with getting an $80 aspirin to the patient.
The Doctor still has to order the Aspirin before anything happens.

The hospital still has to pay for the Nursing staff that will administer the Aspirin. RN's in California are more than likely BSN's or they are working on getting the BSN degree. The starting pay for a BSN is $36 an hour with many having been in the field for some time I am betting that the actual average is more like $40 an hour. If that BSN or RN has to work overtime and that happens often then the pay just went up to on average $60 an hour.

A Pharmacist will have to sign off on the aspirin for the patient. These are licensed highly educated individuals. On average our Pharmacist make over $150,000 a year.

Records need to be kept to make sure everyone knows that the patient had an aspirin. Health Information Management comes in for this reason to make sure that everyone knows what is happening with the patient and that $80 Aspirin.

Most of the medications are delivered on carts or devices with locked compartments. At our hospital we have a medical delivery system that you can place a medication or an $80 aspirin in a carrier and send it thru a tube system to a station where the Nurse can take it and deliver it to the patient. An engineering staff has to maintain the system and service it.

A hospital charge is based on all the people that handle the product.

lets say that the $80 aspirin makes it thru the Insurance companies scrutiny process. They then send us on average about 42% of what we are asking for. But as I stated aspirin in today's world already has a value that everyone has agreed on.

Since the Obama Care was enforced let me tell you what happens with all patients.

A patient comes into a hospital and they are considered an observation patient. Meaning that it has not been proved that they need to be in the hospital. As an observation patient the hospital gets to charge 25% of the normal charge although the observation patient gets full care, or 25% of the 42% that the hospital gets for a non observation patient. In fact we are not allowed to know who is an observation patient or not. After three days it will be determined if the patient will be removed from observation to in house status. If the hospital can prove that the patient should have been in house the entire time then the hospital can bill for the full amount. With the ACA all bills are scrutinized to the fullest extent by both the hospital and the insurance companies, because they sure do not want to pay us at all.

At the same time all the employees still have to be paid. We have over 2,000 employees and all of them need to be paid. Hospitals work on the thinnest of margins, a good one can bring in 2% of what they made in profit. Luckily I work for a hospital that is doing well.
thanks for posting that, it's good information, one question though- regarding the 'observation' status, is that new with the ACA? I don't know much about this stuff, but I remember years ago my mom was hospitalized with a bleeding ulcer, the next day I got a call to go pick her up because the insurance company had decided she didn't need to be in the hospital and she would have to pay out of pocket if she stayed.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,188 posts, read 6,301,958 times
Reputation: 9808
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
thanks for posting that, it's good information, one question though- regarding the 'observation' status, is that new with the ACA? I don't know much about this stuff, but I remember years ago my mom was hospitalized with a bleeding ulcer, the next day I got a call to go pick her up because the insurance company had decided she didn't need to be in the hospital and she would have to pay out of pocket if she stayed.
They also kicked people out after giving childbirth soon too if I recall. Insurance didn't want to pay.
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