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Old 01-07-2017, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,103 posts, read 13,622,175 times
Reputation: 22152

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Well, I am ALL for it if you can figure out a way to get corporate America to start paying pensions again. I squeaked in as one of the last employees with a pension at my current company.
Younger people that got into the workforce ten years ago are not so lucky.
Bottom line is, people will never get pensions unless they demand them, and they won't be able to demand them without collective bargaining. If people would start fighting the passage of 'right to work' laws on the state level that basically kill unions that would be a start.

And maybe in 2020 we can clear the swamp of a cabinet full of Goldman Sach's execs because their answer to every problem will be for us to invest more money in the stock market - why not, they win even when we lose.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:38 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,256 posts, read 6,351,451 times
Reputation: 9873
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
We spend more on healthcare than any other western nation and have worse outcomes

"Health care spending in the U.S. far exceeds that of other high-income countries, though spending growth has slowed in the U.S. and in most other countries in recent years.3 Even though the U.S. is the only country without a publicly financed universal health system, it still spends more public dollars on health care than all but two of the other countries.

Public spending on health care amounted to $4,197 per capita in the U.S. in 2013, more than in any other country except Norway ($4,981) and the Netherlands ($4,495), despite the fact that the U.S. was the only country studied that did not have a universal health care system. In the U.S., about 34 percent of residents were covered by public programs in 2013, including Medicare and Medicaid.7 By comparison, every resident in the United Kingdom is covered by the public system and spending was $2,802 per capita. Public spending on health care would be even greater in the U.S. if the tax exclusion for employer-sponsored health insurance (amounting to about $250 billion each year) was counted as a public expenditure".

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective - The Commonwealth Fund

Heck yeah, we don't want none of that socialist universal healthcare nonsense, we need to keep spending money on a system that doesn't work so that we can proudly proclaim our status as an Oligarchy, or perhaps after January 20th, a Kakistocracy
Right but can we really compare with other nations realistically. My four months in Europe and UK taught me a lot. Most people there walk everywhere. To the train stations, my niece doesn't have a car and she is 36.
Small countries so public transportation is doable. In California, where I'm from, I see very few people walk. For example, in the UK, most people reacted at me like I'm a unicorn when I mentioned our regular colonoscopy every five years. They would be glad to get one if they have problem and request at the age of 80 or 70, which is the age that makes colonoscopy less useful. In USA, people have colonoscopy between age 50-70. After age 70 it's not as useful.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:41 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,256 posts, read 6,351,451 times
Reputation: 9873
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Bottom line is, people will never get pensions unless they demand them, and they won't be able to demand them without collective bargaining. If people would start fighting the passage of 'right to work' laws on the state level that basically kill unions that would be a start.

And maybe in 2020 we can clear the swamp of a cabinet full of Goldman Sach's execs because their answer to every problem will be for us to invest more money in the stock market - why not, they win even when we lose.
There you go again. Pension system was broken. Unions made too many demand and they're outsourced our jobs to China or India.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:48 PM
 
2,446 posts, read 2,075,019 times
Reputation: 5701
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
There you go again. Pension system was broken. Unions made too many demand and they're outsourced our jobs to China or India.

Not all companies that outsourced jobs overseas were union. I'll bet if you look at the numbers, majority were not union. Prime examples are customer service and IT jobs.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,103 posts, read 13,622,175 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Right but can we really compare with other nations realistically. My four months in Europe and UK taught me a lot. Most people there walk everywhere. To the train stations, my niece doesn't have a car and she is 36.
Small countries so public transportation is doable. In California, where I'm from, I see very few people walk. For example, in the UK, most people reacted at me like I'm a unicorn when I mentioned our regular colonoscopy every five years. They would be glad to get one if they have problem and request at the age of 80 or 70, which is the age that makes colonoscopy less useful. In USA, people have colonoscopy between age 50-70. After age 70 it's not as useful.
Look at the charts in the link I provided, walking might explain some of it but certainly not all of it. Routine colonoscopies for patients who do not have a family history or any symptoms are being replaced even in the US by a FIT test every other year, you should probably ask your Doctor about it.
https://medicine.ucsf.edu/news/fom/f...rs.html?key=49

In my opinion we will never have affordable health care as long as insurance companies are part of the equation and we need to find a way to make sure every citizen in the US has healthcare. Since we already have medicare in place and it works well, it seem logical to phase in medicare for all over a period of 5 years or so.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,103 posts, read 13,622,175 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
There you go again. Pension system was broken. Unions made too many demand and they're outsourced our jobs to China or India.
If that is true, then explain the difference between unionization in Canada vs the US.

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Old 01-07-2017, 12:57 PM
 
Location: oHIo
624 posts, read 603,926 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
If we ever get basic income, which gives the same amount to everyone, regardless of whether they're rich or poor, working or not; we could use it as an excuse to get rid of SS. We could make the basic income progressive with age, to completely replace all other old-age benefits. Young people would get just enough to survive while going to school, middle aged people would get just enough to support a small family at the poverty level, and old people would get enough to buy medical insurance and live reasonably well in retirement. If younger and middle-aged people wanted more than the bare minimum, they would have to earn money.

Then, if anyone ever committed fraud to get extra basic income, it would be either from pretending to be more than one person, or pretending to be older than really. Either of those pretenses would be easy to investigate at minimal cost.
I 100% agree with you. Basic income is really the way to go, but I don't think I will live to see it, unfortunately.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,103 posts, read 13,622,175 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten Cat View Post
I 100% agree with you. Basic income is really the way to go, but I don't think I will live to see it, unfortunately.
Probably not, but it's a shame because so much of the money we spend on social services never gets to the intended recipient, or if it does it's doled out in some bizarre combination of benefits that doesn't really help the recipient. When I lived in Nevada I did volunteer work with the poor, and found out first hand how often recipients of benefits sold their food stamps, it wasn't that they were trying to buy liquor or cigarettes, they needed the money for rent. A single parent with two children in Nevada gets $383 in cash aid and a little over $500 in food stamps. The cheapest weekly rental is around $500, so they would sell half of their food stamps and put the $125 cash with their $383 cash benefit in order to rent a room. It was totally absurd but I didn't have any good options to offer them. Every family that I worked with would have done far better getting a flat $900 a month and then being able to work part time to supplement that money without losing their benefits as they would now.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:04 PM
 
Location: oHIo
624 posts, read 603,926 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
What does that have to do with it?
Uh, it's close to impossible to get another job at your pay rate, or even in your field of endeavor if you are laid off over the age of 50. Really, at age 45 you are on thin ice these days.

Just in time for most to get out from under their student loan payments/mortgage. Middle age used to be the prime earning years.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:19 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,256 posts, read 6,351,451 times
Reputation: 9873
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Look at the charts in the link I provided, walking might explain some of it but certainly not all of it. Routine colonoscopies for patients who do not have a family history or any symptoms are being replaced even in the US by a FIT test every other year, you should probably ask your Doctor about it.
https://medicine.ucsf.edu/news/fom/f...rs.html?key=49

In my opinion we will never have affordable health care as long as insurance companies are part of the equation and we need to find a way to make sure every citizen in the US has healthcare. Since we already have medicare in place and it works well, it seem logical to phase in medicare for all over a period of 5 years or so.
Not true. Everybody in my family has colonoscopy at age 50 recently regardless of whether they have family history or not.
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