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Old 01-08-2017, 12:44 PM
 
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^^^^^^

I am not sure how easy it is for folks in that age range to transition to another facility and then back to this one. Just this happening can undercut a lot of the features programs like this help longevity. What do older CCRC programs do when they need to renovate. How the owners can get more rent is when folks don't return for multiple reasons the new residents will pay more.

I know you have been researching CCRC's and have a perspective similar to mine.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Florida -
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As Pikabike stated, "Any building might need to be vacated for renovation." Per the article:

"Two Watermark executives, David Freshwater and David Barnes, told me they had intended to avoid displacing residents, many of whom are in their 90s, with a few in triple digits. But they concluded the work would be too extensive to allow for seniors to live there safely without major disruptions. Plumbing and electrical systems need to be replaced, elevators updated and a power transformer upgraded. They also decided to do extensive seismic safety engineering."

Also, unlike the headline hyperbole that makes it sound like impoverished 95-year old's were suddenly being thrown out into the street, the residents were given 6-months notice! In addition:

"Under state law, residents must be offered roughly $19,000 in relocation costs. Watermark says those who return after the rehab can do so at their current monthly rates, which range from $4,000 to $7,000 for room, meals and activities. And food service and activities will be free to current tenants who relocate but wish to drop by during the rehab."

Honestly, the manufactured outrage of the media and others often blows-up parts of almost any event or circumstance out of proportion to reality. Just because people stomp their feet and write "news" articles or spout inflammatory rhetoric on TV, doesn't mean they have a major legitimate concern that must be addressed. That is part of the nonsense of political correctness that busily insists that every minority cause (some displaced older people) trumps any and all other overriding consideration. This thinking is anti-reality, anti-progress and anti-common sense ... and needs to be dialed-back a notch.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Near a river
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To those who can't sympathize, try being 90 with any number of advanced health problems and being displaced even for a short time. Some if not many could be suffering mental issues like confusion and different stages of different kinds of dementia.

When we moved my mother at age 90+ from her home of more than 50 years to a very nice small one-floor house we acquired for her across the street from my sister, she was confused/disoriented about everything. One night she thought she was in her familiar bathroom (back in her 2 story house, only bath on the 2nd) and was not, she lost it on the pantry floor. She couldn't get the hang of a small electric stove and we had to dismantle it and give her a toaster oven. She nearly fell down the steep basement stairs more than once, forgetting that her new laundry was on the first floor. She dearly missed all the familiar sights and sounds and drama of her former neighborhood. Familiarity staves off fear.

Long story short, she died of natural causes right at the one year mark in the new place.

If she had let us help, or bring in paid help, we would have done that to help her age in place.

Displacing her was a huge mistake, as it can well be for elders even younger than she.

So don't underestimate the non-$ costs of displacement.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Florida -
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If it was only a matter of sympathizing or if that would solve anything, you are certainly right. But, in practical, real-world situations, sympathy and $4.95 will buy one a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

While the renovations could be a ploy to increase rent rates, electrical, plumbing and elevator modifications are unlikely to accomplish that. Likewise, paying $19K in temporary re-housing expenses - and offering the same price to current residents after the renovation, sounds more like an effort to make the best out of an unavoidable situation.

Having worked over the years with octogenarians and older, I am sensitive to the negative impact of change on older folks, but what is the alternative? Must all change cease until there are no more 80 and 90-year olds? Or must 80-90-year old's be wrapped in isolated cocoon's where they can be assured that no change will occur?

As most 80-90-year old's (and children) know, 'Life moves on ... and is not always fair.' -- (As a sidelight, I've seen many situations where the elderly face significant change outside of their home and family, -- because they are treated as an 'unwelcome burden' by their families).

Last edited by jghorton; 01-08-2017 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:17 PM
Status: "Re-edit status" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
4,148 posts, read 1,886,778 times
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On the side, for the Owner, How long can the Owner put off deferred maintenance and unit upgrades at the same time see increasing tax assessments because the surrounding area is also being gentrified. Also all this deferred maintenance and upgrades will either happen under the current ownership or new ownership. Do you gradually wait until all of the seniors move or die off before you do renovations?

Cost squeeze and social economic squeeze on all concern.
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:41 PM
 
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The renovations might be necessary and the situation unavoidable but do not underestimate the stress on the frail elderly. This same situation was probably the main contributing factor to the death of my dearest friend a few years ago. She was in her eighties, legally blind, uncertain on her feet, able to cope with her familiar small apt in a low income senior high rise, but not much else. She knew the renovations were necessary, but every time we would talk, she was so distraught and agitated. They provided packers, but the residents were expected to get their own things out of high cupboards and drawers, which my friend just couldn't do, and the individual packers often were quite rude to the residents demanding much more than they were capable of. Just the worry and fretting at that age and in that condition took so much out of my friend, and then having to be a guest in a relatives home for a month, and in a hotel room a few times for days at a time. How does she get luggage from a taxi into a hotel? How does she get food at a cheap motel when she can't drive and is in an unfamiliar neighborhood? Her friends did what they could, but we were far away or working full time. She just got more and more depressed and unhappy, developed problems with eating and stomach ailments, and shortly after moving back in, was taken to the hospital and died. So yes, such things are necessary, but planning them requires more compassion for people at a point in life where change is nor only severely stressful, but requires much planning and help to sort out the details of how physically to carry it out fir people who might no longer be capable of planning or doing even light physical chores.
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:13 PM
 
29,772 posts, read 34,856,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
On the side, for the Owner, How long can the Owner put off deferred maintenance and unit upgrades at the same time see increasing tax assessments because the surrounding area is also being gentrified. Also all this deferred maintenance and upgrades will either happen under the current ownership or new ownership. Do you gradually wait until all of the seniors move or die off before you do renovations?

Cost squeeze and social economic squeeze on all concern.
Your points are all valid and that is why as I referenced to LookingatFl many looking at CCRC's are looking at newer facilities.
Unfortunately what we buy new may be older when we pass and if not in much demand delay heirs getting the buy in back.
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:52 PM
 
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If the building is under rent control, when those tenants move permanently, the owner is free to increase the rent to market rates.

I think everyone understands moving is difficult and stressful for the elderly, but how can an owner re-plumb, retrofit the building without moving them. If the building is subpar, those same tenants are going to call the city to complain.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,655,251 times
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I live in a rent subsidized senior apartment complex. It consists of three buildings all high rises that must hold at least 250 people combined. I might be underestimating it though.

It used to be just a low income building with some HUD tenants but then in 2013 it became a HUD building in which anyone over a certain income could not live here. So many people, including those who had been living here for decades had to move. You don't get exceptions with the government. Those who had to move were helped with a little cash, discounts on movers and help in finding a new place.

Now the buildings are old. They needed renovation badly especially to bring them up to HUD standards. By enlisting government funds, they would be able to make the necessary repairs. Now to add to all that, the apartments one by one were totally updated and renovated, floor by floor. At this point it's two buildings down one to go. Tenants had to be moved from one floor to another while waiting for their apartments to be done. In my building, a certain number of studio apartments were combined to make one bedroom apartments. One of my neighbors told me she was moved twice before she got into her permanent apartment.

Okay, so of course I feel bad for the people in the article who are distressed because they have to move. But in comparison to what some of my neighbors went through as well as those who could no longer live here due to salary restrictions, I can't feel deep, deep sympathy. I've seen 80-90 plus year olds survive this turmoil. No one likes to be uprooted but of they can live through all this anyone can.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:30 PM
 
443 posts, read 281,031 times
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I agree and my friend agreed, I'm just saying when such things are planned, throwing money at the elderly involved doesn't end what needs to be done. They need social work type help to plan and put into effect what will happen during the renovation. As per my example of providing packers, but not following through to make sure the packers understand a frail, blind woman can't be climbing a stepladder to haul her entire kitchen contents down to floor level.
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