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Old 01-15-2017, 06:22 PM
 
249 posts, read 197,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
If every person in a community all lost everything they had. Their homes, their clothing, their jobs, their savings, all gone in an instant. If you gave every person a sum of money, each was the same sum. And if you left them alone for 10 years. In a decade some of those people would be destitute. Others would be wealthy.

When we were both in college, I got $550/month from the GI bill. We were both taking 18 credits in classes [fulltime was 12]. My Dw was working as a waitress in a truck stop for $3.50/hour [plus tips] and I was working as a stone mason for $5/hour. We were both working fulltime and we were both fulltime+ college students. That was when we bought our first 'home'. My parents co-signed, nobody helped us with the closing costs. That 'home' was a property in California with 3 houses on a single lot. We then lived in one house and we rented out the other two houses. Our rental income covered the mortgage escrow payments, so we were able to live there for free and we made monthly principal-only payments. We had our first child in that home.

After we finished college, I went back into the US Navy. At our next duty station we bought a second property. That property has five rentals.

Years went by, at each duty station we bought another set of apartments. Until after I retired we never made a single monthly mortgage payment from my salary income. We always used rental income for the monthly mortgage payments. Or as some people say Other-People's-Money [OPM].

I have never had a high salary income. I have never really even had a middle-class salary.

Though we collected four properties with rentals.

The Navy forced me to retire at 20 years. At that time, I figured out our Net Worth. We had done pretty well for having been Minimum-Wage workers / enlisted sailor.

Today given the current economy. I can see where a burger-flipper could still do pretty good for himself, if such a burger-flipper decided to.

Our eldest son was working at McD's flipping burgers [BTW, he hates it when I use that phrase] when he bought his first apartment complex.
I've seen your first paragraph many times, much of our financial success is personal choice.

As I said earlier, it is okay if one makes the personal choice not to work hard, take risks, make sacrifices for financial success, just don't begrudge the ones who made their personal choice to be financially successful and over time have much more personal assets, financial choices and freedom than you do.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:06 PM
 
3,455 posts, read 2,331,302 times
Reputation: 7003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
This is a small, butt ugly dwelling in a hip neighborhood. $300,000. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find anything in Asheville for under $300,000.

https://www.trulia.com/property/3049...ville-NC-28806
Off-topic, but I can't resist: That IS one butt-ugly house!
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:40 PM
 
15,300 posts, read 4,040,543 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
I believe him. The problem is, this isn't something everyone can do. There's only so much real estate to go around, so everyone else is stuck at where they're going to be.
You are correct.

It's like amway or other multi-level marketing. If everyone is selling it there is no one to buy it!

The basic facts are these. Schiller (expert) checked housing values over 150 years and found appreciation of less than 1% per year.

Less than 1%.

Just as with winning the lottery and casinos we all hear about the one that made it.

Guess what? I have made millions on the internet. Can you? No. You can't. But there are thousands of peope who will take your money and teach you how to.

A hard worker can invest time and money in real estate and make a fair return on their investment. Over the long run it can be approx. equiv. to stocks (10% per year historically) or a little less.

But any "get rich quick" or "you can definitely do it" stories are BS. Not to doubt that someone hasn't done it. But - again - it's the same old story....you can hire a firm which promises to put your web site on the first page of google. Huh? How is that possible? What if this and other firms promise 5,000 people with the same subject matter that they are all going to be on the first page?

A lot of snake oil in this world. Sure, lots of ways to make a living in construction and real estate. But it's not an easier path than other work and certainly everyone can't do it.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,685 posts, read 49,462,974 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriNJ View Post
Off-topic, but I can't resist: That IS one butt-ugly house!
I agree.

Many homes are on the market in my area for $25k to $40k that look much nicer and that are much larger homes.

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Old 01-15-2017, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,685 posts, read 49,462,974 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
You are correct.

It's like amway or other multi-level marketing. If everyone is selling it there is no one to buy it!

The basic facts are these. Schiller (expert) checked housing values over 150 years and found appreciation of less than 1% per year.

Less than 1%.

Just as with winning the lottery and casinos we all hear about the one that made it.

Guess what? I have made millions on the internet. Can you? No. You can't. But there are thousands of peope who will take your money and teach you how to.

A hard worker can invest time and money in real estate and make a fair return on their investment. Over the long run it can be approx. equiv. to stocks (10% per year historically) or a little less.

But any "get rich quick" or "you can definitely do it" stories are BS. Not to doubt that someone hasn't done it. But - again - it's the same old story....you can hire a firm which promises to put your web site on the first page of google. Huh? How is that possible? What if this and other firms promise 5,000 people with the same subject matter that they are all going to be on the first page?

A lot of snake oil in this world. Sure, lots of ways to make a living in construction and real estate. But it's not an easier path than other work and certainly everyone can't do it.
I have done very well from Real Estate, though never from appreciation. I never expected to see appreciation though.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:19 PM
 
Location: IN
20,852 posts, read 35,964,992 times
Reputation: 13297
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie1278 View Post
Really? Everywhere i look people are having kids. Everytime i watch the news the weathergirls are always knocked up lol
It depends on the geographic area of the US more than anything else these days. Most of the US has an aging population with far fewer younger people compared to even 10-20 years ago.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:23 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,235 posts, read 6,340,776 times
Reputation: 9854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
How is that unbelievable? How old was your secretary? I don't find that amount really impressive considering she made 57K a year.

Some people do not realize how minimalistic lives people can lead. No car, no vacations, no dating, no friends, no eating out, no hobbies. It's no wonder some save a huge amount on a low income.
Exactly, she is 65, has a pension of about $30-$40k, only saved $125k. In Southern California, LA area. That poster was spending many posts accusing me this and that. I couldn't believe it. She is not a minimalist, she has car, has hobbies and eats out occasionally. But not rich by any means. She couldn't afford dental insurance until last year.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,268 posts, read 12,511,970 times
Reputation: 19430
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
Timely article which came out today:

Millennials are falling behind their boomer parents

"With a median household income of $40,581, millennials earn 20 percent less than boomers did at the same stage of life, despite being better educated, according to a new analysis of Federal Reserve data by the advocacy group Young Invincibles."
I was making $18k in 1989, but was a homeowner, thanks to depressed real estate prices from the previous recession. It was not much of a house, and would never have passed a bank inspection. I bought it on contract as distressed property, and set up a used single wide mobile home to live in because the house was not habitable. I gutted the place and spent evenings and weekends working on it.

Fast forward 20 years to 2009 and I had a very nice country estate with a completely remodeled and upgraded home, creek in the back yard, 93 acres and a gazebo overlooking the creek, all paid for and debt free.

When you are living paycheck to paycheck, it's hard to plan a 20 year horizon, but you have to have that plan to get ahead.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,587 posts, read 17,582,380 times
Reputation: 27677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
How is that unbelievable? How old was your secretary? I don't find that amount really impressive considering she made 57K a year.

Some people do not realize how minimalistic lives people can lead. No car, no vacations, no dating, no friends, no eating out, no hobbies. It's no wonder some save a huge amount on a low income.
Minimalism is always about one's personal threshold with regard to comfort and how little they can do with. I don't find leaving the heat off all winter in Ohio, eating ramen every night, or most of these "extreme cuts" to be normal or sane. Of course, the people in those communities will come back with the comment that it's society that's screwed up, not their belief system.

I can't imagine how people live with no car in small towns and rural areas. Our local bus system only runs during the weekdays along limited routes in core areas of the city. Anything along the periphery is not serviced. You'd basically have to have a car here in order to get to work, get groceries, etc.

There is a segment of the frugal living and personal finance communities that would view the "no heat in Ohio" deal as smart, even virtuous. There is a vast, normal middle ground between living like this and spending yourself into oblivion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriNJ View Post
Off-topic, but I can't resist: That IS one butt-ugly house!
But if houses like that are $300,000, what are truly nice homes going for? That house is extremely ugly and is a bit sensational, but there is essentially nothing on the market in the city limits of Asheville other than a few ramshackle mobile homes for under $100,000. There is land, but you'd have to build your own homes.

Median household income is just slightly over $32,000. Where does that bunch below the median live? They rent or live in more affordable outlying communities, but that increases commute costs.

These cost-burdened people are going to have a more difficult time saving for retirement.

Last edited by Serious Conversation; 01-16-2017 at 06:49 AM..
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Old 01-16-2017, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,744,100 times
Reputation: 32304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Minimalism is always about one's personal threshold with regard to comfort and how little they can do with. I don't find leaving the heat off all winter in Ohio, eating ramen every night, or most of these "extreme cuts" to be normal or sane. ..............................

There is a segment of the frugal living and personal finance communities that would view the "no heat in Ohio" deal as smart, even virtuous. There is a vast, normal middle ground between living like this and spending yourself into oblivion.

..........
Yep. The concept of frugality is relative and covers a lot of ground. I am a frugal person by nature, but I even use heat in the Los Angeles area. I can't imagine not using it in Ohio, which seems insane.

My thermostat in winter is set at 63 degrees, and the heat does run 20 or 30 days each winter (that number being an estimate), even here in Los Angeles.
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