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Old 01-12-2017, 12:16 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,249 posts, read 6,345,210 times
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Let's not jump into conclusions again, let's ask proper questions to clarify the situation.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:24 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,622 posts, read 39,986,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman View Post
The poster never said the guy made 50K in 1962, but that he never made more than 50k a year in his lifetime. It's quite possible that person made under 5K in 1962 but was very shrewd by buying property back in the 60's with his low income....
^^^^ THIS ^^^^

'Low income' is very different in various USA locales, as is the quantitative 'a lot of money for retirement'


Many of the retirees we volunteer with never saw $50k, and probably never saw $30k net. They were farmers. Where Breaking Even is a winning year Requires cooperation from weather, bugs, equipment, banks, suppliers, livestock, and many other 'gods' / karma, as well as a LOT of skill and hard work. They don't have a A LOT of money in retirement, but are very happy, content, and well cared for, and do all they desire to do. (not a lot of fluff). Some sold their farms, most gave it to their kids FREE ... (of course the kids have already invested a LONG lifetime of sacrifices to the land)

as MJ said. "most of the country's poverty is in these cheap low cost of living rural areas",


"I have two words for the "cost of living creep" - Asheville, NC."


Ask the residents of Jackson Hole, WY!
welcome to 'reality'... and mobility of wealth /interest / financial ability of living in NICE locales. Those of us from Colorado and west have experienced this gentrification (Californication) since the 1960s. Locals (generations old ranches and farms) are forced from their lands due to inflow of capital raising the property valuations and taxes above sustainable levels. (NO you can't just 'sell the farm and collect the wealth' as a farmer you spent generations BUILDING your farm, you are a STEWARD not a rapist / exploiter)

I fled Colorado in the 1970's and landed in WA, where my property taxes have gone from $800 / yr to $14,400 last yr, and $17,800 next yr. ($48.77 per day in property taxes, no free breakfast, no laundry service and NO INTERNET available (countryside). That is CHEAP compared to my HC, which WAS $300 / month ~ $10 / day, pre A(?)CA. As an early retiree, that level of spending on TWO ITEMS is not sustainable. "cost of living creep" gives me the creeps!

retired age 49, W/O 'a lot of money'

1) always an hourly worker (no union, but decent 'skilled' wages ~ $360/ month in 1975 = $1640 in 2017 = $19680 / yr in 2017, fortunately my career skill (once a 'master') paid a better hourly wage (and 50% OT / yr helped a lot too!) OT earnings were often higher than base pay... BUT you had to show up and WORK like a dog (nightshift). VERY hazardous, I don't have any 'old' friends from my same profession.
2) Single income / hourly earner family
3) Huge farm expense out of annual earnings (to keep the place running)
4) Raised family + cared for disabled parent (on single earner hourly wage)
5) 20% + (of GROSS) annually to charities
6) All appreciated stocks donated to Family charitable foundation at age 39 ~ $100k in 1990's value
7) Frugal living ($100 / month for entertainment and food) WVO cars, heat with wood, grow our own food and fuel.
8) LOTS of (frugal) travel ~ 50% of time.
9) Real estate (in free time) was good to us. Bought first home at age 19, ~ 35 properties of various kinds since. (commercial, investment, spec homes, view lots, rezoning, 1031s...) As home schoolers, taught / helped / financed kids to build their own homes while they were in jr High. (they paid me back + had $100k+ in homes plus ROTHs by the time they were 18. (neither own primary residences anymore... NOT a good 'investment'... I wouldn't either, but I use my primary resd' as my 2.7% BANK for commercial and investment props). +/-


tools / times change,

no silver bullets, be wise, be current, be flexible... enjoy your freedom and ability to make choices.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:37 PM
 
2,444 posts, read 2,073,760 times
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There is a lot of money made with real estate especially farms where urban sprawl makes their land worth a fortune.


Finding the next hot spot is difficult. You buy land cheap and it increases in value dramatically like Branson Missouri or Pigeon Forge Tennessee before Dollywood came and town exploded.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: equator
3,458 posts, read 1,538,753 times
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Yes, if only we could go back in time....my folks lucked out buying in So. CA in the 60's----$30,000 for an acre and a half. After they passed, we sold it for 1.2 mil. But that is unusual, I think, for other areas.


My dad said he had me to thank 'cause I wanted a pony, so he got acreage.


Thanks, dad....
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:51 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,622 posts, read 39,986,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
There is a lot of money made with real estate especially farms where urban sprawl makes their land worth a fortune....
Have you ever tried to move a farm?

Have you BUILT a farm from bare land?

Money alone will not cover it, but it helps. (not so much when you are too old to rebuild)

Tax laws at the moment make it really EZ to clear $500k tax free every 24 months, IF you are good at picking properties in the path of development. Sometimes development STOPS (2008), I FINALLY got a prime piece sold in 2016, that was slated for sale in 2009. I don't have the longevity remaining to wait too many of those deals out.

Ironically we were in Portugal (seeking healthcare) and that created an interesting challenge to close the deal, but ... after several tries / attorneys / trips to embassy...we figured out how to make it happen.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:35 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,072,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
In general, it's not going to be possible.

I live in a low cost of living area where the average person probably makes slightly less than $15/hr. We are very low tax area as well, so there's a very small burden from the state level and local levels.

Even here, it's hard to find a house that doesn't need a lot of work for under $75,000. If a person at that income level can even qualify for a mortgage, they would be out much less than rent, but due to being unable to save much for a downpayment because of their low income, poor credit due to irregular income, etc., they're probably stuck renting, and as we know, the rent trap is going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks for low income people, other than their low income itself.

When you're at the subsistence level like that, it takes about everything you have to put food on the table, keep a car on the road, lights on in the house, and a rood over your head. There's very little left with which to save after all required bills are paid, even at a very low standard of living with little debt or children.

I believe that for most people in most areas, home ownership (escape rent inflation, stabilize housing costs, finite term of mortgage payments, price appreciation, and equity accrual) is the key to a comfortable retirement for low earners.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:57 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,151,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundapeanut View Post
I know a guy who NEVER made more than $50,000 per year and is worth around 20 million. All from real estate investments (bare land, west coast) bought in the 60's and 70's and being sold the last few years. He give 15% to charity for every sale he makes.

His investment guy told us.
So in other words a successful gambler.

Investing using debt is by definition gambling. Great returns if you win and sheer terror if you lose.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:00 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,151,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Real estate has always been a way for people of modest means to significantly increase their wealth, because it can be purchased using significant leverage. But leverage con only go so far; if someone barely has two pennies to rub together, they're simply in no position to take advantage of real estate's potential for appreciation and income generation.
And leverage can wipe you out.

I personally know (some of them related to me) a number of people who actually started out wealthy, gambled just a bit too hard, and ended up poor.

Leverage cuts both ways (but all the blabbering "financial" people on the radio most of whom are jointly realtors and debt merchants don't want you to know that, nor do snake oil sales people like Mr. "Rich Dad")
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:08 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,249 posts, read 6,345,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
So in other words a successful gambler.

Investing using debt is by definition gambling. Great returns if you win and sheer terror if you lose.
This may sound great as a one liner but in reality that's what most people who buy house or invest in real estate do. Successful leveraging. Gambler usually have nothing to show except debt.
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:08 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,172 posts, read 1,268,333 times
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Saved "a lot" or "enough"? Define "a lot". It is totally unrealistic to expect anyone that was "low income" all their life to save enough money to be NOT "low income" (define low income, for that matter) in retirement. They would have to strive to either save "enough" as emergency funds, or expect to work as late as possible to ensure the highest SS income possible and take advantage of social services that are available. In a capitalist society no one is rewarded with a comfortable retirement because they worked hard and long. They had to make enough money to position themselves for the future as their current income required. As mentioned, a paid for home in a low COL area is a typical example. Luck with health and job location has a lot to do with it.

I know an hispanic immigrant that lived in DC and was a manager/salesperson at a liquor store for 35 years. His wife cleaned houses. They had a daughter, who put herself through college. They rented a small cheap apt (by DC suburbs standards) and commuted in every day. They lived extremely frugal and saved everything they could. At 62, he collected SS and moved to Homestead, FL and bought a nice 2000sq ft new house for $250k, cash. He knew he could never get a mortgage. When last we spoke he was incredible happy to be living The Dream for the rest of their lives. They told me they easily live far better now than they ever had, and it was all worth it.
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