Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
... I know it seems like I am harping on you and you do have great frugality tips. But my point is you have non-cash ways of increasing your net worth and standard of living.
Yes, I understand your cash inflows are less than 30K. But you are using your labor and knowhow to provide for yourself in ways that do add value.
Most people play monopoly without reading the rules.
A few read the rules to learn how to play the game.
I began to read the rules in 1983.
I started with nothing. My salary has never been up to the national average. We were extremely frugal and we invested. I retired at 42.
I have been working since I've been 18 (63 now and LONG retired from having to work..although I always do stuff...some that makes money)....
We have been saving money since we were about 24.
When I look at my SS printout I notice that we never made a lot of money. I wouldn't say "low income", but I would say middle class income. And yet we sold our main mom and pop shop and I stopped needing to go to work at 46 years old.
Definitely am in the spirit of the "Millionaire next door".....
Saved $100 a month, then $200 per month - then had $500 per month put in a Vanguard fund. It averaged 10% compounded over many many years. After the kids were through college we started fully funding and IRA with as much as $12K per year. It all adds up.
I have a friend who always made more than I do - sometimes twice as much. He never invested in the stock market do only made 2-5% on his money. Ended up with maybe 1/2 of what we have.
For those interested in the secrets - here are some of them....
For those who want the secrets, some of them are obvious.
1. Don't drink (a lot). (why do you think Mormons are so wealthy?).
2. Don't go to "fine" eateries (they aren't really fine anyway).
3. Don't buy "up-trimmed" cars and trucks. Buying a 45K Audi which is effectively the same as a 26K VW is just ridiculous - especially if you lease or finance)
4. Do most everything yourself - this is BIG one. In 42 years owning homes I've rarely had a contractor do anything.
5. Be a slob - since I worked for myself in retail and construction I probably never spent more than $200 a year on clothes.
6. Don't sell yourself short - getting a job with a 2 hour commute each way that you have to dress up for - and the resulting expense for child care, etc. will eat you alive.
7. Avoid paid child care (sure, we all need a break, but don't spend the big bucks).
8. Avoid any "paid for" primary schools - at 20-30K per year, they can drain your account quickly for little or no return.
9. Same with college...state schools are often as good or better than high priced.
10. DO NOT avoid the stock market. Invest constantly - out of your paycheck monthly.
11. Do not commit adultery
12. Do not go to jail - nor get close enough where many lawyers are involved.
13. Avoid lawyers at all costs.
14. Avoid partnerships
15. Enjoy your work (you'll do it more and therefore make more $).
16. Read - work on continuous education. Don't specialize (doesn't apply if you are a surgeon!).
17. Don't make completely ignorant mistakes....you can do a lot of things right and then one BIG thing wrong, and all is lost.
18. If you are losing money you can't make it up in volume.
19. Buy Life Insurance - Have health Insurance.
20. Money should be easy coming in and hard going out! This is a retail example - but we always collected money due for jobs or products on completion. When we paid our bills, we made sure to scour the invoices, take advantage of early pay discounts and watch for errors.
Good Luck to all attempting this! If you go out to dinners, concerts or even movies regularly you probably won't make it. If ou are in debt for high amounts (more than, for example, twice your yearly salary), you probably won't make it unless that debt covers properties creating income.
most of the country's poverty is in these cheap low cost of living rural areas , not the city's where better opportunity's exist .very low cost of living areas are generally low cost for a reason .
That's an excellent point, but better jobs exist even in low income areas. I live in an economically depressed area, where the unemployment rate never dips below 7%. There are decent, steady jobs that pay in the $20 to $30/hr. range. There are just perhaps 1500 of those jobs shared between 50,000 people. If you can land a decent job, you can do very well indeed. People who plan for the future can develop substantial assets.
I have been working since I've been 18 (63 now and LONG retired from having to work..although I always do stuff...some that makes money)....
We have been saving money since we were about 24.
When I look at my SS printout I notice that we never made a lot of money. I wouldn't say "low income", but I would say middle class income. And yet we sold our main mom and pop shop and I stopped needing to go to work at 46 years old.
Definitely am in the spirit of the "Millionaire next door".....
Saved $100 a month, then $200 per month - then had $500 per month put in a Vanguard fund. It averaged 10% compounded over many many years. After the kids were through college we started fully funding and IRA with as much as $12K per year. It all adds up.
I have a friend who always made more than I do - sometimes twice as much. He never invested in the stock market do only made 2-5% on his money. Ended up with maybe 1/2 of what we have.
For those interested in the secrets - here are some of them....
For those who want the secrets, some of them are obvious.
1. Don't drink (a lot). (why do you think Mormons are so wealthy?).
2. Don't go to "fine" eateries (they aren't really fine anyway).
3. Don't buy "up-trimmed" cars and trucks. Buying a 45K Audi which is effectively the same as a 26K VW is just ridiculous - especially if you lease or finance)
4. Do most everything yourself - this is BIG one. In 42 years owning homes I've rarely had a contractor do anything.
5. Be a slob - since I worked for myself in retail and construction I probably never spent more than $200 a year on clothes.
6. Don't sell yourself short - getting a job with a 2 hour commute each way that you have to dress up for - and the resulting expense for child care, etc. will eat you alive.
7. Avoid paid child care (sure, we all need a break, but don't spend the big bucks).
8. Avoid any "paid for" primary schools - at 20-30K per year, they can drain your account quickly for little or no return.
9. Same with college...state schools are often as good or better than high priced.
10. DO NOT avoid the stock market. Invest constantly - out of your paycheck monthly.
11. Do not commit adultery
12. Do not go to jail - nor get close enough where many lawyers are involved.
13. Avoid lawyers at all costs.
14. Avoid partnerships
15. Enjoy your work (you'll do it more and therefore make more $).
16. Read - work on continuous education. Don't specialize (doesn't apply if you are a surgeon!).
17. Don't make completely ignorant mistakes....you can do a lot of things right and then one BIG thing wrong, and all is lost.
18. If you are losing money you can't make it up in volume.
19. Buy Life Insurance - Have health Insurance.
20. Money should be easy coming in and hard going out! This is a retail example - but we always collected money due for jobs or products on completion. When we paid our bills, we made sure to scour the invoices, take advantage of early pay discounts and watch for errors.
Good Luck to all attempting this! If you go out to dinners, concerts or even movies regularly you probably won't make it. If ou are in debt for high amounts (more than, for example, twice your yearly salary), you probably won't make it unless that debt covers properties creating income.
11a. Marry a financially stable person and stay married to the same person for life. I always tell young guys to check her credit card balance before they tie the knot. If she can't live on her income, she won't be able to live on yours either. This also applies to prospective brides - don't marry a bum or a welsher.
My aunt was always low income with low paying jobs. However, she was also very frugal in ways that just astonish me. However when she had a man in her life she finagled him into paying a lot of expenses so she would set aside money that she wasn't using because of the latest guy in her life. She died recently at age 83 and although on paper she was "poor", she owned a small house, had a 20 year old vehicle that was paid off. Her "boyfriend" who was in a nursing home up north when she died had bought her a new big screen TV, new bathroom vanities and laid out thousand for her dental implants. I wish I knew her secret because she was in declining health and other than having a fun personality (at times) I don't see how she did it.
She always cried poverty but we found $15K in cash after she died when we were cleaning out her house. Good thing because my mother (her sister) had to borrow money for her funeral expenses and to become executor of her "estate". Granted $15K isn't a lot of money but I read stories all the time about people who seem to be poverty stricken and when they die, people find out they were millionaires and they are leaving all their money to charity. Maybe you could do that if you lived in a rent controlled apartment in a big city but don't know how the average poor person could save much, if anything at all these days.
I read somewhere that about 40% of working Americans make less than $30k a year ($15 an hour.) Most people could not come up with $1000 to cover an emergency. A good percent of Americans are poor.
The result is most Americans live pay check to paycheck and have very little saved for retirement and with the average Social Security check being about $1200, many seniors live their final years in poverty.
Anyone on this board, the exception and even though you were low income most of your life, you still saved a good amount of money for retirement? If so, tell us how.
My parents have nothing saved for retirement. They have been low income and living in a high COLA forever. When they thought about moving, my dad couldn't find any jobs in a "cheaper area" that made sense to move to and when he tried to get a job with the city (pension), they dropped him when he was at the final step (physical exam) because he has pre-existing heart conditions.
The only thing that they have is money my dad inherited from the sale of a home (pricey home but split four ways) and the house they will ultimately sell. From those two things alone, they'll have over half a million. They just got lucky with the RE in the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs
I get tired of hearing how bad millennials have it. Part of the problem is they want to start at the top and have everything NOW that took a lot of us 30 years to acquire.
Way to NOT read the article. The article states that millenials make 20% less than baby boomers did at the same age. And it also says that when baby boomers were young, they owned more homes and had amassed assets worth twice as much as young people of today. It has nothing to do with what you are talking about, which is obviously incorrect.
My friend, who is 66, makes $12.50/hr. It's the highest wage he's ever made.
Work :
He's worked at the same place, a junkyard, his entire life. He started out pulling auto parts and worked his way up to managing the parts counter. He works 9 hrs a day and 4 hrs on Saturday mornings. He gets 3 weeks of vacation which he doesn't take and gets paid for instead. His employer (a family business) feeds their employees breakfast and lunch. He had medical insurance (no dental) which cost him $5/wk - he's on Medicare now.
Personal :
He was married and divorced in his 20's. He has a daughter and paid child support. He owns his home, a used car, used truck, a collectible hot rod, and a boat. He doesn't eat out and only buys clothes and shoes when needed. He has a large garden in his backyard and grows vegetables. His largest yearly expense is probably property taxes followed by dental work. His largest monthly expense is cable, because he loves movies, and vitamins. He has a very active social life and goes dancing five nights a week (salsa and country).
Finance :
He has managed to save $150,000 for retirement without investing (passbook savings account)! He never had a savings goal or a specific amount he saved every month - he just spent what he needed and saved the rest. He also has containers of coins all over his house and I have no idea how much money that would total! He finally allowed me to help him invest some of his money six years ago when he started thinking about retiring. He has put the maximum in a Roth IRA for five years at Vanguard and we built him a five year I bond ladder ($10,000/ yr). He not sure if he wants to invest anymore money going forward. He decided not to retire this year but wait until age 70 and get the maximum SS payout.
That's the crux of the matter... as a society we haven't managed to discourage starting a family until one is further up the wage ladder.
Don't have to. I see it in my nieces and nephews. Nephew in Wisconsin just bought his first home - age 49. They have one child - could not afford a second child. Nephew in California doesn't own a home. Had his first child 2 years ago. He is 40.... his wife is 39. Niece in Seattle has a 3 and a 1 year old she is 40 - House was bought 4 years ago - they are barely making ends meet.
They are waiting. Careers were stalled because of the recession.... which meant their family building was stalled too. And their home buying.
For that matter - our first home purchase was done when I turned 40. Couldn't have kids. Probably the reason we're doing OK and will retire soon. Kids would have put a major damper on that.
I also have to respond to the comment about Mormons saving money because they don't drink.
What a ridiculous statement.
If there EVER were a place where people try to "keep up with the Joneses" - it's here in Utah.
I have never seen such entitlement.
The Church also discourages women from working outside the home.... so you can guess how that goes......
A lot of families here are setting themselves up for disaster.
I have been working since I've been 18 (63 now and LONG retired from having to work..although I always do stuff...some that makes money)....
We have been saving money since we were about 24.
When I look at my SS printout I notice that we never made a lot of money. I wouldn't say "low income", but I would say middle class income. And yet we sold our main mom and pop shop and I stopped needing to go to work at 46 years old.
Definitely am in the spirit of the "Millionaire next door".....
Saved $100 a month, then $200 per month - then had $500 per month put in a Vanguard fund. It averaged 10% compounded over many many years. After the kids were through college we started fully funding and IRA with as much as $12K per year. It all adds up.
I have a friend who always made more than I do - sometimes twice as much. He never invested in the stock market do only made 2-5% on his money. Ended up with maybe 1/2 of what we have.
For those interested in the secrets - here are some of them....
For those who want the secrets, some of them are obvious.
1. Don't drink (a lot). (why do you think Mormons are so wealthy?).
2. Don't go to "fine" eateries (they aren't really fine anyway).
3. Don't buy "up-trimmed" cars and trucks. Buying a 45K Audi which is effectively the same as a 26K VW is just ridiculous - especially if you lease or finance)
4. Do most everything yourself - this is BIG one. In 42 years owning homes I've rarely had a contractor do anything.
5. Be a slob - since I worked for myself in retail and construction I probably never spent more than $200 a year on clothes.
6. Don't sell yourself short - getting a job with a 2 hour commute each way that you have to dress up for - and the resulting expense for child care, etc. will eat you alive.
7. Avoid paid child care (sure, we all need a break, but don't spend the big bucks).
8. Avoid any "paid for" primary schools - at 20-30K per year, they can drain your account quickly for little or no return.
9. Same with college...state schools are often as good or better than high priced.
10. DO NOT avoid the stock market. Invest constantly - out of your paycheck monthly.
11. Do not commit adultery
12. Do not go to jail - nor get close enough where many lawyers are involved.
13. Avoid lawyers at all costs.
14. Avoid partnerships
15. Enjoy your work (you'll do it more and therefore make more $).
16. Read - work on continuous education. Don't specialize (doesn't apply if you are a surgeon!).
17. Don't make completely ignorant mistakes....you can do a lot of things right and then one BIG thing wrong, and all is lost.
18. If you are losing money you can't make it up in volume.
19. Buy Life Insurance - Have health Insurance.
20. Money should be easy coming in and hard going out! This is a retail example - but we always collected money due for jobs or products on completion. When we paid our bills, we made sure to scour the invoices, take advantage of early pay discounts and watch for errors.
Good Luck to all attempting this! If you go out to dinners, concerts or even movies regularly you probably won't make it. If ou are in debt for high amounts (more than, for example, twice your yearly salary), you probably won't make it unless that debt covers properties creating income.
I can vouch for this! Really good points, all.
My ex and I were doing #15---loved building spec houses! Did all the work ourselves. The market was down when we finished, so we did #14, which led to #13. Biggest mistake of our lives. Built another house with a partner who financed it. He planned to screw us from the get-go but we were too trusting. Then a bad lawyer. Barely avoided #12 due to this. That one bad decision has plagued me for the rest of my life. See #17. All this led to #1...:-)
But you can't always see these things coming. Lots of hard work for nothing. We've all---well, most of us---had some curve balls thrown our way.
Last edited by Sand&Salt; 01-15-2017 at 10:56 AM..
Not sure who left me a comment about the OP not posting an article to be read---yes, I am well aware of that. I was responding to the comment about an article link that was posted in this thread---post #70 if you're confused. And I thought it was an interesting article, because if people in their mid-to-late 20s and early 30s are "years behind" monetarily compared to their parents, how are they going to fare in retirement?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Way to NOT read the article. The article states that millenials make 20% less than baby boomers did at the same age. And it also says that when baby boomers were young, they owned more homes and had amassed assets worth twice as much as young people of today. It has nothing to do with what you are talking about, which is obviously incorrect.
Not sure who left me a comment about the OP not posting an article to be read---yes, I am well aware of that. I was responding to the comment about an article link that was posted in this thread---post #70 if you're confused. And I thought it was an interesting article, because if people in their mid-to-late 20s and early 30s are "years behind" monetarily compared to their parents, how are they going to fare in retirement?
