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View Poll Results: Retired- under 65? Do you get Obamacare Subsidies?
Yes and I am proud of it 28 31.46%
No, I am paying for the insurance without help 30 33.71%
My ex employer pays for my health insurance 21 23.60%
What is Obamacare? 10 11.24%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-21-2017, 09:50 PM
 
236 posts, read 1,372,857 times
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[quote=MyronSubotnick;46891875]Perhaps free, but then there is free healthcare, and then there is good healthcare. Sort of like how much of Europe and socialized-medicine countries work. You have stated a sample size of one (SO's cousin). That demonstrates existence of free healthcare. States nothing about good healthcare. In my 20 years experience in the healthcare environment, as well as the spouse and literally almost all my relatives, pray that the cousin does not have anything medically really bad happen to him/her. Youse gets whats youse pays for....
Your argument is that it is all free... so be it... but most would never, ever trade places when it comes to medical care. The docs/hospitals we go to in the US don't take Medicare/Medicaid, because the reimbursement is so poor, and thus the quality of care is suspect.

JMHO[/quote

Great Thread, just wanted to add that obamacare subsidies are NOT taxed https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs...idered-income/
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Old 01-21-2017, 10:18 PM
 
236 posts, read 1,372,857 times
Reputation: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
So how far do we take this logic?

People with substantial assets can get tax breaks for owning a home. Given most people paying for their tax breaks don't have a million dollars or more in assets, should this "sweet deal" end just because the receiver of the tax benefits has a greater net worth than the majority paying taxes that cover it?

A couple making 90k and living on investment income can pay $0 in fed income taxes because they fall into the 15% tax bracket, despite possibly having net worth in the millions. Should we start means testing on federal income taxes to determine applicability of tax brackets, based on net worth instead of only income? Other tax payers without million are covering thousands of dollars in taxes these scum aren't paying.

I'm sure I can think of a dozen other examples (children? gambling losses?), bottom line our system provides many benefits to people with high net worth that comes at expense of money in Uncle Sam's pockets, thus covered by others without millions.
Great post...your theory is 100% correct. It's kind of like when you are born with a silver spoon and inherit the family farm or business is that fair? A few years ago under Bush there was no inheritance tax even if you were giving away a billion dollars to your drug addicted kids. Is it fair that if you come from a wealthy family your parents can send you to best colleges enabling you to get the job opportunities that don't exist for most people? Is it ethical that if you are raised in a wealthy neighborhood all kinds of doors open up for you through neighborhood connections. The system is and will always be rigged to enhance the wealth and power of a select few through the power of lobbyists. Lastly, if you scrimp and save a little bit to maybe possibly make the lives of your children or grandchildren easier, should it all be taken away by the medical establishment whose greed is the primary cause of this particular issue..
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:19 AM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
4,776 posts, read 2,574,119 times
Reputation: 9310
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
but HC is very cheap compared to my Property taxes ($44/ day. up from $<$3 day), same property, no improvements, just getting more worn out by the day.
I'm guessing the "less than $3 per day" property taxes means you must have owned a very much older Proposition 13 house in California?
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,737 posts, read 49,563,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer View Post
I'm guessing the "less than $3 per day" property taxes means you must have owned a very much older Proposition 13 house in California?
I pay $2.08/day for 150 acres of land with 1/4 mile of river frontage and a 2400 sq ft house built in 2005.
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Old 01-22-2017, 05:55 PM
 
35 posts, read 17,986 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Is this really a reasonable concern?

I'd put the chances of everyone figuring out how to accumulate millions by their 30s and retire early at somewhere between zilch and nada.

No flames please, as these are just the Mrs. and my opinions, and everyone has them.

No, there is no reasonable concern.

Well, if you use the term 'everyone', then we agree the chances are somewhere between zilch and nada. But someone using a little strategy and common sense (and a few marginal risks) change that outcome dramatically for him/her.

Typically, if you sacrifice when you are young, the better off you can be when older. Chose a profession that provided a marketable skill. Some things we did: never took a vacation for 20 years, and when (forced to use-it-or-lose it employer vacation), used that time to personally build our own houses to live in. Bought a car every 17+ years. Saved in IRA's/401K's (even before the contributions were pre-tax), and invested 30% of gross income every year). Played the stock market with advice from my mother (never would have guessed an English teacher major had awesome investment ideas). Found a professional spouse (though would never marry, as the marriage penalty would have nuked us) who also believed in massive saving. Never had kids, as they are a financial and emotional drain, and you never know what you will get.
Learned the tax and government laws. You can't play the game if you don't know the rules. Though we were fiscally conservative and socially liberal, we got tired of paying for everyone else that either couldn't get their act together, or made poor life choices. So if you can't beat them, join them, and take advantage of every loophole you can. If we can have illegal immigrants getting something for nothing, then so can the rest of us. Our US society has sort of made us bitter people, as the drive, motivation and loyalty factors seem to be eroding quickly. Many want the quick buck, to live a lazy lifestyle. We would last five minutes at that. We donate most of our time and money to charitable organizations (primarily animal causes, as we have mostly given up on the human cause, even though we were both in the medical field).

We would apologize to those who cannot figure it out, but then again, "The best place to find a hand is at the end of your own arm".

Please no comments about 'What about those people who...", as we are talking in generalities, not specifics.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:09 PM
 
249 posts, read 197,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronSubotnick View Post
Though we were fiscally conservative and socially liberal, we got tired of paying for everyone else that either couldn't get their act together, or made poor life choices. So if you can't beat them, join them, and take advantage of every loophole you can. If we can have illegal immigrants getting something for nothing, then so can the rest of us. Our US society has sort of made us bitter people, as the drive, motivation and loyalty factors seem to be eroding quickly. Many want the quick buck, to live a lazy lifestyle.

We would apologize to those who cannot figure it out, but then again, "The best place to find a hand is at the end of your own arm".
Are you still socially liberal? Does look like it.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:25 AM
 
Location: On the road
6,019 posts, read 2,924,117 times
Reputation: 11582
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronSubotnick View Post
Well, if you use the term 'everyone', then we agree the chances are somewhere between zilch and nada. But someone using a little strategy and common sense (and a few marginal risks) change that outcome dramatically for him/her.
I'm not sure of your point. Even if there are a few people who figure things out, bottom line the chances of a significant portion of our population retiring in their 30s and 40s with millions to take advantage of ACA aren't even worth worrying about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronSubotnick View Post
never took a vacation for 20 years
To each their own, but to me this sucks. Decades in the prime of your life not taking vacations ever just to build up that stash a little more? No thanks, gotta live a little man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronSubotnick View Post
Please no comments about 'What about those people who...", as we are talking in generalities, not specifics.
This doesn't make sense to me, you're giving specifics about a rare example of someone getting ahead by making sacrifices that few would make, then saying we should be talking about generalities not specifics. Generalities say people in their 30s and 40s don't save enough to retire, don't use ACA with subsidies while having millions stashed away in bank accounts, and manage to squeeze in a vacation or two in two decades.
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:05 AM
 
35 posts, read 17,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarlin20 View Post
Are you still socially liberal? Does look like it.
Not even close to be liberal, in the slightest way. The only good presidents in my lifetime were Reagan, some aspects of Bush, and hopefully Trump. But the topic of this thread is Obamacare subsidies paying for early retirees, which I will not take. (Though I DO love all the tax benefits provided by the IRS laws).
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:26 AM
 
35 posts, read 17,986 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
I'm not sure of your point. Even if there are a few people who figure things out, bottom line the chances of a significant portion of our population retiring in their 30s and 40s with millions to take advantage of ACA aren't even worth worrying about.


To each their own, but to me this sucks. Decades in the prime of your life not taking vacations ever just to build up that stash a little more? No thanks, gotta live a little man.


This doesn't make sense to me, you're giving specifics about a rare example of someone getting ahead by making sacrifices that few would make, then saying we should be talking about generalities not specifics. Generalities say people in their 30s and 40s don't save enough to retire, don't use ACA with subsidies while having millions stashed away in bank accounts, and manage to squeeze in a vacation or two in two decades.
1). My point was to your statement that it is extremely rare for most people to retire with considerable assets when young. The percentage is larger than you think. At 45, most of my friends and I ended paying working careers, because they worked smarter, not harder.

2). In terms of taking time off, I have so many hobbies that my vacations are based on building things, learning things, and doing things complex enough that I was not sure I could do it. Ever build a pro-street drag car as a vacation hobby? I love it, and that ignores traveling 4 months a year now. To you it may suck, but this thread isn't about you; it is about retiring in your 30's and 40's with millions and using ACA.

3). Extremely rare? While only 1% of the millionaires at less than 35 years old (you know how many people that is?), the average age is 62, and there are 3.3M millionaires and 41.2 thousand millionaires worth over $30M. It is not exactly 'rare'. A dollar isn't what it used to be.

Back to the thread,; if you have serious illnesses (as I have had), private insurance is far, far more cost effective than ACA.
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:47 AM
 
35 posts, read 17,986 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
Very curious what state you live in that you are able to buy a high risk policy on the open market.
Thirty-three states have high-risk pools, twelve states have other means to provide coverage, and the remaining five you are SOOL... Do a google search and you will see what your state has.
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