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Old 02-01-2017, 04:15 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,165 posts, read 1,265,978 times
Reputation: 4456

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
What?? What nonsense.
No, he is quite correct. He did not say that all financially successful 50+ Are SS haters. But anyone that really favors privatization of SS either has a way to profit from it, OR thinks they could have invested their and their employers contribution and come out farther ahead. Only successful people would think that. I think that too.

But SS is NOT a pension plan. It is an insurance policy with weird rules that help many that can't help themselves, and favors lower income over higher income. It they want to privatize SS they would have to require an amount to be paid back in to the fund for those that have little, as a minimum equal to what goes to them from SS now. If one is a wizard at investing and triples what they would have gotten from SS, then for instance, a mandatory third has to be taxed back. SS comes out ahead and one is still way ahead of where they would have been. In addition, just like SS, the principle would not be owned by oneself, upon death, like any annuity, and only guaranteed no loss of principle investments allowed. With rules like that, very very few would take the private option.
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Old 02-01-2017, 04:48 PM
 
25,985 posts, read 32,996,703 times
Reputation: 32181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryinva View Post
No, he is quite correct. He did not say that all financially successful 50+ Are SS haters. But anyone that really favors privatization of SS either has a way to profit from it, OR thinks they could have invested their and their employers contribution and come out farther ahead. Only successful people would think that. I think that too.

But SS is NOT a pension plan. It is an insurance policy with weird rules that help many that can't help themselves, and favors lower income over higher income. It they want to privatize SS they would have to require an amount to be paid back in to the fund for those that have little, as a minimum equal to what goes to them from SS now. If one is a wizard at investing and triples what they would have gotten from SS, then for instance, a mandatory third has to be taxed back. SS comes out ahead and one is still way ahead of where they would have been. In addition, just like SS, the principle would not be owned by oneself, upon death, like any annuity, and only guaranteed no loss of principle investments allowed. With rules like that, very very few would take the private option.
I disagree with it, as does everyone I have talked to about it. And most of those folks are pretty well paid. So his perception is wrong, in my experience. No one I know considers SS to be some tiny amount of money that they would equate to mad money. Perhaps the super wealthy think like that, but certainly not all the folks that make more than his stated number of 50k, or whatever it is that he considers to be average.
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:24 PM
 
71,550 posts, read 71,730,589 times
Reputation: 49155
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
good points, Perryinva. I worked 38 years and my Social Security at age 62 was $1248, and I had a very decent salary the last 22 years.
my 62 is 1906.00, fra 2527.00 , age 70 is 3,335.50 ,

spouse gets 4500.00 added to her early benefit when I file
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:36 PM
 
Location: RVA
2,165 posts, read 1,265,978 times
Reputation: 4456
I don't know what you are talking about. I was only referencing his statement that all SS haters are 50+ and financially successful. No where was any reference to the pocket change or beer money posts. His point was lower income earners like SS just fine. They get an amazing return on investment, double what high earners get.

I wholeheartedly agree that SS is not pocket change. Could I SURVIVE without my SS if I had to? Of course I could. If I were to get divorced tomorrow and lose half of everything saved and have my income for retirement cut in half, I would hate it, but I would survive just fine. My reference for what I could afford would be reset to a still quite livable state, is all.

But that's not the point. SS is NOT a "for the poor only" plan. If I pay in and live long enough I fully expect and deserve my portion, regardless of the means testing. Whether I use it on pole dancers or rescuing animals is entirely up to me. Neither the government (at least legally at this time) nor anyone else can tell me I am only allowed to have and use this money if I absolutely need it. The same applies to millionaires and billionaires, where SS won't even pay for the fuel in their private jet. I have no problem with that at all. Those same millionaires and billionaires typically donate the lions share of money to help the same causes that support the people that criticize them. It is what it is.

On my last 01/2017 SS statement, myself and my employers have paid in to SS and Medicare just over about $390k since 1974, and we will pay in another almost $60k by the time I retire at 62, for which I will not see any real increase in my SS, because I already have 35 years maxed out. Would I rather have $450k, and let the government keep everything it had earned on it in the last 45 years, and give up SS? On a personal income level, I sure would! My age 62 amount is $2100. Would someone who made much less than I, and gets the $1200 (amounts from my wifes statement) average take the $110k and give up SS? I think not. I don't think I have to explain why. Who's getting the better deal?

Last edited by Perryinva; 02-01-2017 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:41 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 1,935,161 times
Reputation: 4597
[quote=foundapeanut;47024011]^^^ you are right, it is an annuity.

Hubs started OK I'm going to guess you aren't married. If you are, .

Your making an assumption his mother never worked. If she didn't, she made life easier on her husband by supporting him while he worked. Not giving her widow bennies would set us back to why social security was created to begin with. To get people who worked all their lives out of poverty when they quit working. And the widows who supported these men.

Here's where the SS bennies should quit. A man gets one survivor benny to pass on. Your first wife should get it, not every woman you been with for 10 years. If the first wife remarries, than that one can be passed on to the next.
Not every woman gets remarried, especially when she gets older. A guy ss account can be paying multiple survivors bennies as long as the women never remarry.


************************************************
If his mother never worked and she's under, say, 75, she's an exception these days. Most women have been working and paying into SS for at least 40 years. Two income households, have, for example, fueled inflation in real estate, food - probably everything. So some guy who is simply not interested in sharing a bed with someone, not interested in losing half of his income in a divorce, lives in a single income house, pays school taxes, etc. pays the same for everything as a two income household...then, gets part of his potential SS payout taken away because 70 years ago when they set up this stuff, women had wringer washers, starched shirts, cooked from scratch, and washed walls because paint was oil based and expensive. It's now the 21st century. Nobody does that any more - haven't needed to for many, many years.


Been to almost any workplace (exclusive of a coal mine or steel mill) lately? It's 50% women. Has been for a long, long time. End the survivor bennies. Archaic junk.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:31 AM
 
Location: -"`-._,-'"`-._, ☀ Sunny Florida ☀ ,-"`-._,-'"`-.
1,352 posts, read 731,339 times
Reputation: 1295
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
Ever hear of a metaphor?
As the old joke goes, "yes, it's for feeding cows".
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
12,255 posts, read 12,503,351 times
Reputation: 19398
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
That's not what is being discussed here. Your post implied the person is not correct, your wife earned less but has more in SS. It's not a debate whether to take SS at 62 or FRA or 70. You can't compare apples with oranges. You might want to clarify your comment with my wife took SS at FRA that's why it's more, not because she earned less and got more than OP as you implied.
That's exactly what is being discussed here. The OP was whining about getting smaller checks because he was planning early retirement. Well, snowflake, that's life. Get used to it.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:08 AM
 
2,952 posts, read 1,637,878 times
Reputation: 5292
[quote=TwinbrookNine;47046260]
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundapeanut View Post
^^^ you are right, it is an annuity.

Hubs started OK I'm going to guess you aren't married. If you are, .

Your making an assumption his mother never worked. If she didn't, she made life easier on her husband by supporting him while he worked. Not giving her widow bennies would set us back to why social security was created to begin with. To get people who worked all their lives out of poverty when they quit working. And the widows who supported these men.

Here's where the SS bennies should quit. A man gets one survivor benny to pass on. Your first wife should get it, not every woman you been with for 10 years. If the first wife remarries, than that one can be passed on to the next.
Not every woman gets remarried, especially when she gets older. A guy ss account can be paying multiple survivors bennies as long as the women never remarry.


************************************************
If his mother never worked and she's under, say, 75, she's an exception these days. Most women have been working and paying into SS for at least 40 years. Two income households, have, for example, fueled inflation in real estate, food - probably everything. So some guy who is simply not interested in sharing a bed with someone, not interested in losing half of his income in a divorce, lives in a single income house, pays school taxes, etc. pays the same for everything as a two income household...then, gets part of his potential SS payout taken away because 70 years ago when they set up this stuff, women had wringer washers, starched shirts, cooked from scratch, and washed walls because paint was oil based and expensive. It's now the 21st century. Nobody does that any more - haven't needed to for many, many years.


Been to almost any workplace (exclusive of a coal mine or steel mill) lately? It's 50% women. Has been for a long, long time. End the survivor bennies. Archaic junk.
Actually the work place is more than 50% women. But there are women that still stay home, like 20%. For many reasons. They won't change it. Life isn't fair, get over it.

How is his payout being affected? He gets exactly the same as everyone else in his pay history.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:41 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,226 posts, read 6,326,744 times
Reputation: 9839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
That's exactly what is being discussed here. The OP was whining about getting smaller checks because he was planning early retirement. Well, snowflake, that's life. Get used to it.
Yes but he was thinking of taking his SS at 62. And you replied your wife did earn much but has higher SS. But you forgot to mention she didn't take it out at 62. She delayed taking it out to get a higher payment. Get with the program please. Stop injecting inaccurate information for the purpose of insulting OP.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Lake Placid
307 posts, read 492,290 times
Reputation: 128
Well ,,, , my father died @ 55 year old and mother is not around. He never collected. So where did his SS earnings go?

Into a pot to give some smuck who didn't really work and collecting his SS reward?
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