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Old 03-02-2017, 11:25 AM
Location: SW Florida
9,741 posts, read 7,022,649 times
Reputation: 14219


Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
Per Wikipedia today:

Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada (Nevada law only addresses support of children and not support of parents. NRS Chapter 125B), New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia.

In addition, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico also has filial responsibility laws.

Also per Wikipedia, some of the State Filial Responsibility Laws require assistance to Grandparents and/or Siblings. The trend has been a reduction in the number of states with such laws, one time as high as 45 states. This reduction is attributed to the advent of Medicaid and other programs intended to support the aged.
Siblings too? Wow, guess we would just have to direct all takers out to the money tree in the back yard.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:30 AM
Location: Las Vegas
13,877 posts, read 25,302,878 times
Reputation: 26334
Originally Posted by Protagonista View Post
Grrreat. I just posted about my dad wanting to move in with me. I'm in California.

He lives in a small town in Pennsylvania and has 2 apartment buildings he would have to sell, but the amount of money he would get from them is small when compared to California properties, so I was thinking he could live off of that and S.S. while I owned and paid for the house.

This puts a different perspective on it. And I don't want to live in a tiny burg in Pennsylvania.
The laws are not the same everywhere! Read up on yours!
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:02 PM
Location: next up where ever I go
588 posts, read 344,283 times
Reputation: 2087
Be careful what you wish for.

To be blunt. I am so very glad that both of my parents, whom I cared for in their later years, died quickly. They were very sick but still able to be in their homes...no assisted living for them. Boom. Gone. Best thing they ever gave me besides my life.

That being said, in my Thread about what will happen to people when the money runs out there were more than some that quipped "they" would adjust to living on Social Security. In other words, Not My Problem.

I worked with an Elder Law attorney and we did a lot of transfer of assets primarily for dementia patients. It is called false impoverishment to be Medicaid eligible. It was usually the house that was transferred. The look back then was three years. It worked sometimes and a lot of times it did not. I tend to think the attorney I worked for knew it would not work but gave it a shot anyway. He never said, and I did not know. Didn't work in that area long enough to see going forward.

Be very careful about what you sign on that contract for your parent to move them into any kind of "home." I suspect we will be seeing a clause that the children will be responsible for any incurred debt more and more. Legal. Sure. The care facilities are going to holding all the cards. Don't want to take on the debt....send granny home to the last known address.

There will be a great hue and cry when the children's houses will have a lien put on them for their parent's care bill and there will be a lot that will get bit.

I would look to states to transfer granny who have the funds to care for the elderly. The GOP is chomping at the bit to cut social programs and build up the military with those funds no longer being sent to the states.

So be very very careful. Me, I'll move to Oregon where I can meet my maker when the money runs out. Boom. Gone.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:30 PM
Location: next up where ever I go
588 posts, read 344,283 times
Reputation: 2087
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
It is one thing to have a lookback period in an effort to spot massive transfers of assets to adult children in an attempt to throw all the nursing home costs onto Medicaid, and it is quite another thing to make adult children responsible for paying their parents' bills. Consider this scenario:

1. You are an adult child who was abused/mistreated by your parents when they were raising you.
2. In addition, your parents were always irresponsible with their money and you had no control over that.
3. Now thety are old, in a nursing home, and the state comes after you to pay for it.

To say that is a gross miscarriage of justice is an understatement. It is outrageous.

Just because it is not right, does not make it illegal.

Love Love
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:01 PM
Location: next up where ever I go
588 posts, read 344,283 times
Reputation: 2087
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I seriously doubt it. Most people simply cannot afford such costs.
I am sorry Chessie but I gotta do this...


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Old 03-03-2017, 11:45 PM
4,776 posts, read 6,601,633 times
Reputation: 6785
You can't get blood out of a turnip, the old folks used to say.
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:46 PM
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,832 posts, read 14,341,548 times
Reputation: 30663
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
This is the situation my brother and I are in with our parents. They were medically and emotionally neglectful/abusive when we were kids. We both went 1000 miles away to college and that's when the financial help ended for me, even when I went through stage IV cancer a few years later. I've always said I would help them just as much as they helped me when I was sick: cry poverty, send $100, and then go on a two week luxury vacation to Scotland when they need me most. On an income of $30,000, they seem to have a new car every few years, expensive dogs with vet bills, and vacations galore without much thought to their future.

My dad hasn't worked in a decade and a half (and is only just now approaching 60) and they haven't put a penny towards retirement in that entire period of time. Between their much too large house and retirement savings, they only have about $500,000 total. That terrifies me beyond anything, and they don't seem to understand that there aren't abundant government programs for them.

They plan on moving near where my brother and I live, though I no longer speak to them. My brother has had a lot of help from his in-laws who live down the street, so that's who his priority helping in old age will be. I am terrified that filial laws will come after me to deal with these people who I would be perfectly content if I never saw again, and come for me right when I'm starting to have kids, or am planning for my kids' college.

Filial laws might have made sense when the COL was lower (i.e. one parent could work, the other could stay home and take care of kids and elderly parents) and if families were functional. When neither of those cases are true, it's a rough road.
See an attorney in your state to know your rights. You probably do not have too much to fear along these lines though. But see an attorney so you can protect yourself.
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Old 03-04-2017, 03:35 PM
4,312 posts, read 1,280,011 times
Reputation: 3392
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post

With such laws or not, that is still happening. We had to help my mother-in-law when she went into assisted living, and now my siblings and I often have to help our parents financially and otherwise. They took care of us for 18-20 years, now we have a chance to help take care of them for probably less, 10-15 years.
For most of the time they took care of us, we were not helpless. We could help with the chores, and as teenagers a lot of us had part time jobs. My parents didn't even have to pay for my college since I had a scholarship and went to a state school.

If your parent is in AL or NH for 20 years, if it only costs $30,000/year, that would be $600,000. That's more than my life savings. I would have been financially devastated.

And it probably costs a lot more than $30,000/year. So I think you need a spare million lying around, to not become poverty stricken.
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:49 PM
13,872 posts, read 7,381,208 times
Reputation: 25346
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I seriously doubt it. Most people simply cannot afford such costs.
It's kind of inevitable as Medicaid gets squeezed that states will start chasing anyone with deep pockets for nursing home expenses under filial responsibility law. They can't grab your IRA or 401(k) accounts since those are federally protected but everything else is fair game.

It's tough to guess what they'll define as "deep pockets".
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Old 03-05-2017, 04:01 AM
71,454 posts, read 71,629,249 times
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we have been seeing the reverse in new york , ct and florida .

the courts have been realizing that driving the stay at home spouses of seniors who need care in to impoverishment hurts even more as two people end up on public assistance .

courts have been ordering medicaid to reach agreeable amounts of charges for the stay at home spouse to pay without driving the spouse at home in to being near broke .

our estate attorney who is one of the most popular in the field of elder care said he has no medicaid recovery suits . he only has negotiation cases today going on .

it is likely that more states will jump on the band wagon with ny ,ct and florida who already have courts adopting ct's views .

all the laws and tools for preserving assets for a stay at home spouse have been purposely left in place . they could easily do away with all look backs exceptions and nothing could escape being taken . but states do not want a population of impoverished seniors . so the tools are left in place for those folks smart enough to utilize them .

it is no different than your fair share of taxes is what ever you can legally figure out you have to pay using the laws and tools available to you .

if you take a nys partnership plan for long term care , ny actually created a special version of medicaid which has no look back , no spending down of assets and no maximum income levels for the stay at home spouse .

the state will pick up all your long term care bills , whether assited living , in home care or snf once the 3 years insurance runs out .

so some states are trying very hard to deal with the poor long term care situation we have without hurting the population and driving them in to poverty .

except for a random exception like the PA case , states have not been using filial laws .

had that woman in pa fixed her application for medicaid properly and not left the country that case would have never happened .

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-05-2017 at 05:19 AM..
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