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Old 03-07-2017, 06:27 PM
 
6,211 posts, read 4,715,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
..............

Also -- there are reasons cholesterol tends to get higher with age. It helps protect against certain diseases, for example. Older people with low cholesterol are more likely to die sooner.
Where do you come up with this stuff? You keep putting out statements that are not supported by facts and are completely contradictory to the absolutely huge body of information in this field.


High cholesterol is not valuable for protection against disease.


The HDL ratios are considered all but worthless. A high ratio is only likely to mean a low LDL. Most treatment and diagnostic decisions are based on LDL.


If you don't have a "genetic disease" you are not somehow protected against the effects of hyperlipidemia.


Exercise and diet are important but they rarely are able to significantly alter lipid levels.


Stop making up "facts" that just add to the bad medical advice on the internet. In this instance the facts are clear and simply stated in ATP IV. Decades and millions of hours of research have gone into building the body of knowledge in this field.


If you do not trust the results or your doctor, perhaps you should visit a specialist and arrange for repeat and additional follow up testing. Trying to alter the facts to match your desire is best left to the politicians.

 
Old 03-07-2017, 06:31 PM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,280,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post

Exercise and diet are important but they rarely are able to significantly alter lipid levels.
Even most MDs would disagree with you about that.

I think you just don't want to exercise and would rather depend on drugs.
 
Old 03-07-2017, 07:33 PM
 
6,211 posts, read 4,715,040 times
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Every physician would recommend exercise, good dietary choices and weight loss for those who are overweight. That does not mean those alone will bring lipids to recommended levels.


You are making assumptions about me. I eat a well balanced, low carb, low fat diet. I get a lot of exercise and am rarely more than a few pounds heavier than I would like. None of those have reduced my cholesterol levels. Even years ago when I was in even better shape, my lipid levels just kept gradually increasing until statins were needed to hold the levels down.
 
Old 03-07-2017, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,426,347 times
Reputation: 15678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I had a checkup and blood tests and got the results today. The doctor said my cholesterol is extremely high, 318. I said well there is nothing I can do about it because I won't take drugs, especially not statins. Anyway my blood pressure is normal.

She said it doesn't matter if blood pressure is normal, the carotid arteries could still be blocked, and that can cause a stroke.

So was I scared into getting a prescription?

No, I told her total cholesterol doesn't matter, you have to look at the ratio of HDL and LDL. Yes, I was telling an M.D how to do her job!

I told her the research on cholesterol-lowering drugs is not conclusive, and I said she should read it.

It was obvious she was getting very angry (can't really blame her), but trying to stay calm.

As soon as I got home I looked up the normal ranges for HDL and LDL. Yes my total cholesterol is high, but my HDL / LDL range is very low (1.6). So according to everything I read, I have extremely low risk of a heart attack or stroke.

And my triglycerides and VLDL are very low.

Yes I have high total cholesterol, but that means nothing, especially when you get older. In some research, high cholesterol was shown to predict better health in older people!

I have a healthy lifestyle and I exercise every day. The doctor I saw today, on the other hand, is fat.

I am posting this to see if any of you had similar experiences, and if you managed to resist getting put on harmful drugs. They really try to scare you.
You may wish to have your doctor order the Berkeley HeartLab blood cholesterol test. It is different from the run-of-the-mill test you most likely received.

See Advanced Lipoprotein Testing and Subfractionation Are Clinically Useful | Circulation

You'll get information on:

Quote:
Routine lipid panel, including total cholesterol, LDL, HDL, TG
LDL particle size
HDL particle size
Apo B - LDL particle number
Lp(a) – high levels can cause blood to clot too easily, inherited, can alter with medications
Homocysteine
Lp-PLA2 – measures imminent stroke risk
Highly Sensitive CRP – measures inflammation
Fibrinogen – another measure of inflammation
NT-proBNP – a measure of cardiac stress
Insulin – measure of early insulin resistance and risk for diabetes
Genetic Tests:
• Apo E Genotype - identifies how people respond to dietary fat
• Kif6 Genotype – identifies if certain medications would be helpful
• LPA Genotype - identifies if taking aspirin would reduce risk heart disease
• 9p21 Genotype - identifies people with a risk of early onset heart attack, abdominal aortic aneurysm and heart disease risk
Edit: Berkeley Heartlab appears to have been acquired by Quest. They've rebranded it "Advanced Cardio IQ test"

https://www.4myheart.com/4mh/welcome.jsp
 
Old 03-07-2017, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,426,347 times
Reputation: 15678
One other thing: For those of you with multiple risk factors, talk to your doctor about getting a Coronary CT Angiogram. Your insurance won't pay for it (most likely).

Cholesterol tests and the like provide the diagnostician with data that can be used to guess if you have coronary artery disease.

A Coronary CT Angiogram actually looks inside your coronary arteries to see if there is coronary artery disease. The answer is definitive. No more guesswork. At that point, your cholesterol numbers are not particularly helpful -- if you do not have coronary artery disease, then whatever your cholesterol numbers are -- they are fine. If you *do* have the disease, you'll get back a report saying, for example, that one of your coronary arteries is 68% blocked and another is 30% blocked and the rest are fine. Even if your cholesterol numbers are fine, well, you have coronary artery disease.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,201 posts, read 8,504,300 times
Reputation: 35558
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Every physician would recommend exercise, good dietary choices and weight loss for those who are overweight. That does not mean those alone will bring lipids to recommended levels.


You are making assumptions about me. I eat a well balanced, low carb, low fat diet. I get a lot of exercise and am rarely more than a few pounds heavier than I would like. None of those have reduced my cholesterol levels. Even years ago when I was in even better shape, my lipid levels just kept gradually increasing until statins were needed to hold the levels down.
There's no reason to think that because exercise has no effect on you that it doesn't work for anyone. Since exercise is almost universally associated with better general health/fitness it is unlikely that exercise would have negative impacts and could help some other health condition besides high cholesterol.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,410 posts, read 37,788,066 times
Reputation: 22550
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
One other thing: For those of you with multiple risk factors, talk to your doctor about getting a Coronary CT Angiogram. Your insurance won't pay for it (most likely).

Cholesterol tests and the like provide the diagnostician with data that can be used to guess if you have coronary artery disease.

A Coronary CT Angiogram actually looks inside your coronary arteries to see if there is coronary artery disease. The answer is definitive. No more guesswork. At that point, your cholesterol numbers are not particularly helpful -- if you do not have coronary artery disease, then whatever your cholesterol numbers are -- they are fine. If you *do* have the disease, you'll get back a report saying, for example, that one of your coronary arteries is 68% blocked and another is 30% blocked and the rest are fine. Even if your cholesterol numbers are fine, well, you have coronary artery disease.
This is what my doctor sent me for when my numbers came back troubling to her. According to it, I'm fine, and any risk of coronary artery disease is miniscule.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 08:44 AM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,280,011 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Every physician would recommend exercise, good dietary choices and weight loss for those who are overweight. That does not mean those alone will bring lipids to recommended levels.


You are making assumptions about me. I eat a well balanced, low carb, low fat diet. I get a lot of exercise and am rarely more than a few pounds heavier than I would like. None of those have reduced my cholesterol levels. Even years ago when I was in even better shape, my lipid levels just kept gradually increasing until statins were needed to hold the levels down.
As I said, there is a small minority of patients whose high cholesterol is genetic. Statins can benefit ONLY those patients, yet are given to anyone with total cholesterol over 200.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 08:49 AM
 
4,312 posts, read 1,280,011 times
Reputation: 3392
High cholesterol has NOT been shown to be a cause of artery disease. In some cases, it can be a predictor. But it most cases, it is probably unrelated.

Lowering blood cholesterol levels has NOT been shown to benefit ANY patients.

Statins have a very small positive effect, but that is because they are anti-inflammatory, NOT because they lower cholesterol.

These facts are well-known, yet MDs stick with the obsolete guidelines.

The long-term effects of statins are thought to be: diabetes, heart disease, cancer, dementia, and liver disease.

However, doctors can always blame those things on normal aging. So we DO NOT KNOW if the epidemic levels of those diseases might be partly caused by statins.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 09:58 AM
 
259 posts, read 136,235 times
Reputation: 511
Here's a video on heart disease and diet from a doctor/researcher with pretty good creds. While no single study is the definitive end point, this one suggests that some of the guidelines may not be so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y3K...ature=youtu.be

It's only 22 minutes. View it and make your own decision.

FWIW, I remember when a certain sugar-bomb cereal was called healthy for the heart, while eggs were a big NO-NO. Go figure.
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