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Old 03-11-2017, 03:49 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,229 posts, read 6,331,374 times
Reputation: 9849

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
I think his/her point is that insurance companies, who have a very powerful profit motive, do not have your best interest in mind, they have the best interests of their shareholders in mind.

Right or wrong, insurance companies deny claims every day, all day, because every time they pay out, that cuts into the bottom line. The longer they can deny or delay, the better it is for the bottom line. Which means that CEO's bonus goes down, because they are not in it for altruistic reasons, they are in it to make money. That is how corporate America works and we all know it.

What I find fascinating, is the those in countries with UHC pay less, half, per ca pita than we do. Why is that?

And before anyone starts with the nonsense about how "bad" their care is, I lived in one of those countries for many years and the care was fantastic. Most on here who spout off about UHC in other countries have no clue as they have never been or lived anywhere with that kind of program.

There are a lot of reasons, but it's useless to have calm, reasoned conversations about them because we have been programmed as a country to associate anything with the word socialist with communist. Which is ironic, in and of itself, since we have so many socialized programs. And the fact that MEDICARE is socialized medicine just kills me when people on this board spout off on the horrors of UHC, yet they have exactly that, just limited to a subset of society.

And if anyone believes that their contributions to Medicare during their working careers even comes close to covering their medical costs is either delusional or just doesn't care. They got theirs, screw everyone else.

And this is not directed at Tuborg, his post was just easy to work from.
Maybe not but at least they pay into the system.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:59 PM
 
649 posts, read 554,328 times
Reputation: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Really, an article that is 16 years old? From an organization that is as conservative as it gets? Jim DeMint, the former Senator from my state, left to head this foundation up. In South Carolina, Jim DeMint is seen as extreme.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:04 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
I think his/her point is that insurance companies, who have a very powerful profit motive, do not have your best interest in mind, they have the best interests of their shareholders in mind.

Right or wrong, insurance companies deny claims every day, all day, because every time they pay out, that cuts into the bottom line. The longer they can deny or delay, the better it is for the bottom line. Which means that CEO's bonus goes down, because they are not in it for altruistic reasons, they are in it to make money. That is how corporate America works and we all know it.

What I find fascinating, is the those in countries with UHC pay less, half, per ca pita than we do. Why is that?

And before anyone starts with the nonsense about how "bad" their care is, I lived in one of those countries for many years and the care was fantastic. Most on here who spout off about UHC in other countries have no clue as they have never been or lived anywhere with that kind of program.

There are a lot of reasons, but it's useless to have calm, reasoned conversations about them because we have been programmed as a country to associate anything with the word socialist with communist. Which is ironic, in and of itself, since we have so many socialized programs. And the fact that MEDICARE is socialized medicine just kills me when people on this board spout off on the horrors of UHC, yet they have exactly that, just limited to a subset of society.

And if anyone believes that their contributions to Medicare during their working careers even comes close to covering their medical costs is either delusional or just doesn't care. They got theirs, screw everyone else.

And this is not directed at Tuborg, his post was just easy to work from.
Insurance companies exist becauses people were willing to start them to make money, not out of altruism or wanting to help society. That is a reality of where and how capital flows. There are medical co-op's. That were founded with the beginning of the ACA that were non profit and meant to be for the betterment of society. However many of them have floundered. There are religious affiliated entities providing services without a profit motive. Unfortunately they can run in problems and without the ability to offer profits it is hard for them to raise capital outside of the church or charitable contribution.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:19 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,229 posts, read 6,331,374 times
Reputation: 9849
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
Really, an article that is 16 years old? From an organization that is as conservative as it gets? Jim DeMint, the former Senator from my state, left to head this foundation up. In South Carolina, Jim DeMint is seen as extreme.
I know the left won't like it.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:21 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,229 posts, read 6,331,374 times
Reputation: 9849
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Insurance companies exist becauses people were willing to start them to make money, not out of altruism or wanting to help society. That is a reality of where and how capital flows. There are medical co-op's. That were founded with the beginning of the ACA that were non profit and meant to be for the betterment of society. However many of them have floundered. There are religious affiliated entities providing services without a profit motive. Unfortunately they can run in problems and without the ability to offer profits it is hard for them to raise capital outside of the church or charitable contribution.
The left likes to vilifying insurance companies, but CEO from these insurance companies don't make anywhere close to the tech CEOs, oh wait they vilifying those too.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:26 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
The left likes to vilifying insurance companies, but CEO from these insurance companies don't make anywhere close to the tech CEOs, oh wait they vilifying those too.
This isn't a left or right thing as many lower income folks on the right resent Wall Street and the coastal enlist. Sound familiar? It is more about appreciating capital markets.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:33 PM
 
649 posts, read 554,328 times
Reputation: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
The left likes to vilifying insurance companies, but CEO from these insurance companies don't make anywhere close to the tech CEOs, oh wait they vilifying those too.
I am not vilifying anyone. American's are capitalists, that's what we do. You can be conservative and still have compassion for your fellow man. I think the single biggest difference between American's and all those other countries that have UHC is simply this, they believe that health care is a right and we don't.

How do you reconcile the concept that anyone can go into an emergency room and get care without paying for it? Who is paying for that? We are, those of us with insurance. Our insurance premiums are higher because they don't pay so they pass along the costs to those that do. We also pay through taxes subsidizing the poor and the elderly. So, we are paying multiple ways, multiple times, which any fiscal conservative would tell you is stupid.

And when you kick those 20 million American's off of their health care, who is going to end up paying for them anyway? We will, just like we always do. So, if that is the case, then why not have a system that lowers the cost for all? But no, we won't do that, because our government is beholden to the special interest groups like insurance and big pharma.

When the AMA and major hospitals come out against a plan, it might just be bad.

One other point, then I am done, I have told this story before, but will again. This is my experience with the dreaded UHC.

I cannot speak for the experiences of others, but can for myself. While on a trip to Germany to visit family, I got a horrible sinus infection that turned into bronchitis. We called the doctor, who came to the house. WHAT? Why yes, he made a real house call. He examined me, determined what the problem was, wrote me 2 prescriptions and went about his business. We went to the local pharmacy, where I had to pay 4 dollars for both prescriptions and that was that. Oh, the doctor didnít cost me a dime, and no, I did not have travel medical insurance or did I have to use my insurance. From the time we called him until I had the medicine I needed was just over 3 hours.

But I am lying and this never happens and they actually pay more than we do for health care.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:29 PM
 
Location: next up where ever I go
588 posts, read 344,756 times
Reputation: 2087
I am sorry to say it but it just comes down to whether you have health care or you don't.

Be very, very careful what you wish for.

I understand the argument for a free market system where competition will push the prices down for anything. Unfortunately, I have been watching this idea go by the way side, not because I am a leftist but because the market does not work as an independent entity. As in, competition will keep markets at a level where people will be able to pay the cost of what the market will bear.

The market is now a "how much can I get and if I can get all the other companies to go along with the price" well, now we have a fabricated market. Say... monopolies and how they determine the price. We are not in a free market.

As far as Germany goes, it is a rich country also. How do they pay for universal healthcare and our country cannot or won't.

Problem being, we are losing our base money maker...the middle class to stagnant wages on the backs of no good paying real jobs, inequality of wages again, on the backs of real jobs, and the attitude that I GOT MINE so F you.

Be very very careful what you wish for. Tomorrow you job may be gone, you may get an illness, life hands you a divorce, your kid may get into a car wreck and will never be able to work again (seen it happen too many times working in the insurance industry), life happens on a dime.

But then again....you may be the one that gets into that car wreck. Then you will be screaming that we take care of you. Well, there is the bridge and the box underneath.

Love Love
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Idaho
4,627 posts, read 4,468,721 times
Reputation: 9050
[mod note] Partisan politics belong in P&OC. Not in the 'retirement' forum. Thank you. [/mod note]


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Old 03-11-2017, 07:17 PM
 
29,782 posts, read 34,871,258 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMKSarah View Post
I am sorry to say it but it just comes down to whether you have health care or you don't.

Be very, very careful what you wish for.

I understand the argument for a free market system where competition will push the prices down for anything. Unfortunately, I have been watching this idea go by the way side, not because I am a leftist but because the market does not work as an independent entity. As in, competition will keep markets at a level where people will be able to pay the cost of what the market will bear.

The market is now a "how much can I get and if I can get all the other companies to go along with the price" well, now we have a fabricated market. Say... monopolies and how they determine the price. We are not in a free market.

As far as Germany goes, it is a rich country also. How do they pay for universal healthcare and our country cannot or won't.

Problem being, we are losing our base money maker...the middle class to stagnant wages on the backs of no good paying real jobs, inequality of wages again, on the backs of real jobs, and the attitude that I GOT MINE so F you.

Be very very careful what you wish for. Tomorrow you job may be gone, you may get an illness, life hands you a divorce, your kid may get into a car wreck and will never be able to work again (seen it happen too many times working in the insurance industry), life happens on a dime.

But then again....you may be the one that gets into that car wreck. Then you will be screaming that we take care of you. Well, there is the bridge and the box underneath.

Love Love
Reality check, not being mean or snarky but how much of the middle class is needed? There are a lot of books written and to be written on technology and society. One of my favorite authors is Thomas Friedman who talks about the problems emerging what is creating them and our need to deal with them.
the rapid acceleration of technological advancements is casting people aside. If the middle class is so important why is it dwindling in size? Remember Paul Ryan is a student not fan of Ayn Rand.

Ryan's love-hate with Ayn Rand - POLITICO

Many folks are fans which doesn't mean they embrace but understand that there are those who do and what that means.

This article is about five years old it appears that the points made by Ryan are here now to be implemented.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.f69c0046be0e

Last edited by TuborgP; 03-11-2017 at 07:27 PM..
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