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Old 03-12-2017, 09:14 AM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,197 posts, read 2,863,927 times
Reputation: 4898

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Talk about cognitive dissonance, I don't suppose you see the difference between collecting a benefit from a program you paid into for 45 years and collecting a benefit from a program you haven't paid into at all?

Gimme gimme gimme.
But here's the rub - and someone should explain this to Paul Ryan.... by all of us being insured - by mandate - we are all contributing and benefitting.

It's the very definition of how insurance works.

It works for your car. I works for your home. It works for your life. It SHOULD work for your health.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:05 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 792,617 times
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Personal experience. Husband retired early I stopped working years ago. Current health care is a joke, though we are healthy we pay over $15K a year for basic medical coverage (currently COBRA but cost is similar to what we could get on the open market). Cobra will expire before he hits 65 and I have a year or so afterwards. I would love to get coverage for catastrophic events only paying out of pocket for doctors visits etc. at a reasonable rate but can't. I have to get health coverage that covers pregnancy, birth control pills and other things I do not need but I pay twice or more as those who are younger and will most likely utilize pregnancy benefits. Before Obama care my husband looked into what health care would cost and it was half the amount we currently pay. Our health hasn't changed, in fact, retirement has probably made us healthier. As to subsidies, quite frankly unless you are retiring early for health reasons you aren't retiring on an income that qualifies you for subsidies. As to the proposals of the current administration we aren't so happy with that either. Would we change retiring early? No way. My husband is healthier and happier not working and is enjoying retirement very much.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:11 AM
 
29,809 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
But here's the rub - and someone should explain this to Paul Ryan.... by all of us being insured - by mandate - we are all contributing and benefitting.

It's the very definition of how insurance works.

It works for your car. I works for your home. It works for your life. It SHOULD work for your health.
With auto insurance you are allowed to CHOOSE the level of coverage you want and what you don't want. If you only want liability and have a paid for car you don't need to get collision. If you don't have a car you don't need insurance. If your house is paid for you don't need home owners insurance. The ACA mandated insurance and a penalty and what that insurance provided whether you could actually use it or not.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:21 AM
 
1,258 posts, read 1,588,788 times
Reputation: 1393
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
... have a paid for car you don't need to get collision
...... If your house is paid for you don't need home owners insurance....

I never understood this argument. If you pay for house and car in cash you are OK to have the house burn to the ground and car being wrecked (whether it's your fault or some uninsured idiot's) and NOT get any money for it?
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:45 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 792,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioToCO View Post
I never understood this argument. If you pay for house and car in cash you are OK to have the house burn to the ground and car being wrecked (whether it's your fault or some uninsured idiot's) and NOT get any money for it?
It is called self-insuring. In other words you can afford to take the low risk of your house burning down or your car being wrecked. I laugh everytime I buy something and the clerk asks if I want insurance for it. I don't need to pay for insurance for something I can afford to risk losing. Why insure a car worth $5K if you can afford to buy a new one. Insurance is for risks you cannot afford. You don't insure a car for common maintenance, therefore I would hope to be able to buy insurance that doesn't include routine doctors visits. Yes I would like to insure in case I get in an accident or get cancer or some other costly disease but not for my routine doctors visits. This alone, would cut health care costs, because if you were paying for it you would ask the price and doctors would become competitive. I don't have dental coverage and when I do go looking for a dentist I will be sure to ask prices.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:48 AM
 
3,725 posts, read 2,205,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioToCO View Post
I never understood this argument. If you pay for house and car in cash you are OK to have the house burn to the ground and car being wrecked (whether it's your fault or some uninsured idiot's) and NOT get any money for it?
Yes, some people are OK with it. It's their choice.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:53 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 792,617 times
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To the person who posted to me they fear they won't be able to retire due to health care costs, You still have time, plan plan plan which means save save save. Don't buy things just because, don't take expensive trips when a cheaper alternative will do and be just as fun. Don't keep up with the Jones'. I admit we did well because we don't have children but I drive a 17 year old car and my husband drives a 16 year old car. Utilize every method available of saving money for retirement, 401k's IRA's deferred income. Avoid buying on credit for things you can't pay back when the bill comes due.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,181 posts, read 2,595,608 times
Reputation: 6155
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofHere View Post
Before Obama care my husband looked into what health care would cost and it was half the amount we currently pay. Our health hasn't changed, in fact, retirement has probably made us healthier
The reason it is more expensive is not due to covering pregnancy it is due to the expanded risk pool. Prior to ACA, they excluded sick people and people with pre-existing conditions from the risk pool, now they cannot do that. That has made insurance more expensive.

The risk pool is going to be the same under Ryan's plan so AHCA insurance will not be cheaper than ACA. In fact it will likely end up costing way more since the risk pool will likely be depleted of healthy people (since there is no more individual mandate) and it will tilt towards unhealthy. That will drive the costs of premiums up. But the subsidies will stay the same. Oops.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:56 PM
 
29,809 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioToCO View Post
I never understood this argument. If you pay for house and car in cash you are OK to have the house burn to the ground and car being wrecked (whether it's your fault or some uninsured idiot's) and NOT get any money for it?
Sure, I never fully understood it either til I moved to NC. After Hurricane Matthew it turned out many folks didn't have any home owners insurance. That crops up in the news after fires etc etc.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,181 posts, read 2,595,608 times
Reputation: 6155
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
With auto insurance you are allowed to CHOOSE the level of coverage you want and what you don't want. If you only want liability and have a paid for car you don't need to get collision. If you don't have a car you don't need insurance. If your house is paid for you don't need home owners insurance. The ACA mandated insurance and a penalty and what that insurance provided whether you could actually use it or not.
The analogy between health insurance and car insurance is not a good one though because with a destroyed car, it is your loss alone. But when someone without insurance gets injured or sick, he/she often ends up in the ER and gets treated. That is paid for with public funds, or by the hospital absorbing the cost and then passing it off to all its other patients with higher fees. The rest of us end up paying for those without insurance anyway, either through taxes or higher premiums.

It just does not work very well to have different insurance classes (private, Medicaid, Medicare) and different subsidies. Just pay for everyone with taxes and give everyone Medicare.
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