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Old 03-12-2017, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,061 posts, read 2,572,689 times
Reputation: 5990

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
Unfortunately, I work in public health, and I don't see either the health care industry or the insurers stepping up to bring the costs down on anything. It's the exact opposite and I lack the faith in either industry to police themselves.

It's the American way to want the best and be the best. That requires money, lot's of money, and it's also the American way to make as much as we can, regardless of the impact on others or the environment. The health care industry is no different than the big banks or the auto companies. Privatize profit, socialize risk.
Unfortunately Americans have been conditioned to expect unlimited health care options, all paid for by insurance. This all-you-can-eat attitude is great news to the medical-industrial complex which is more than happy to keep dreaming up more and more treatments and tests they can sell us. Face it, all of us have an insatiable appetite for medical services and it is not an easy thing to overcome - it is basic human nature.

Part of the problem is that insurance companies have no incentive to lower costs. They basically determine the average for annual health care expenditure across a huge number of people, add 15% to that, divide by the number of subscribers, and that is your premium. But the average they use is what the medical industry is demanding, so the insurance industry is not driving prices down, they just pass costs on to us as premiums. Insurance is not the cause of high health care cost, but they are not doing enough either to bring it down.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:13 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,558 posts, read 39,944,045 times
Reputation: 23693
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Unfortunately Americans have been conditioned to expect unlimited health care options, all paid for by insurance. This all-you-can-eat attitude is great news to the medical-industrial complex which is more than happy to keep dreaming up more and more treatments and tests they can sell us. Face it, all of us have an insatiable appetite for medical services and it is not an easy thing to overcome - it is basic human nature.

Part of the problem is that insurance companies have no incentive to lower costs. They basically determine the average for annual health care expenditure across a huge number of people, add 15% to that, divide by the number of subscribers, and that is your premium. But the average they use is what the medical industry is demanding, so the insurance industry is not driving prices down, they just pass costs on to us as premiums. Insurance is not the cause of high health care cost, but they are not doing enough either to bring it down.
From my experience of getting HC in several other 'developed' countries, The USA does not have the corner on 'excellent care' or 'exhaustive available services. The 'Full-Meal-Deal' usually comes due to the 'expectation' that insurance (?) is covering it, and Dr's / hospitals enjoy generous 'upcharges'. So.... why not prescribe more services than you need.

True... enter the Number of Dr's and lawyers Multiply by their Std of living; divide by number of people who actually pay for coverage.

We are in an area that is deemed to have too many dentists, but our rates are very high rather than competition driving it low. The reasons are given that Dentists have a std of living and cost of doing business that has a certain high threshold. Result = fewer patients to cover those costs. Pay up.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:10 AM
 
29,775 posts, read 34,863,854 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastguyz View Post
Give us your gross income, age of you and spouse, zip code, and other questions asked and let's see what it comes up with using https://www.healthsherpa.com/ which gives you a quick answer. Must better than the government website for ACA.

No, people are angry because of misinformation and political reasons. Pure and simple.

Employers do NOT have to pay more than 10% of the costs if they don't want to. But what would happen, is someone works a low paying job and can't afford the same $1200 a month that someone making over $100K gets. So even if the employer pays the 10% required in some states, that still leaves $1080 a month for the employee making minimum wage. So what would happen, is they didn't get the coverage at all because they couldn't afford it. Then when they got sick this employee and family members go to ER and that runs up the costs for all of us. Going to the ER for anything is the most expense thing to do. But if the employees had coverage, then they would be able to go to the doctors like everyone else at an affordable cost. ACA lowered the cost so this employee doesn't pay $1080 a month, much lower cost. The employer is crying about nothing, a crummy 10% is nothing, and they just take it out of whatever raises and bonuses the employee would have gotten. They don't take it out of their pocket. And before you complain these people who get better paying job, yes, they show, but the company still needs a janitor, and someone to bus the tables. These are low wage and low skilled jobs and people need to work in them.
Roll the way you want to as the times they are a changing if you hadn't noticed. Right or wrong the folks you disagree with are they winning or losing? I may disagree with them also but a reality check makes me see the trend.
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:04 AM
 
4,194 posts, read 2,488,898 times
Reputation: 1935
The government should just get out of health care... All they do is raise costs.. Dont tell me they do anything to help anyone out.

Stop forcing people to get it. If they choose not to get it, then they pay or die.. Thats a choice of theirs..
Otherwise, get out of it, let the insurance companies and hospitals systems work for us.
And stop allowing someone to sue the crap out of a doctor for stupid issues that are non life altering.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,437,354 times
Reputation: 15678
One of the best things we can do is to stop calling healthcare insurance "insurance." It isn't insurance and hasn't been since the 1930s.

What we now call healthcare insurance is really just a method of financing healthcare.

Health insurance is the primary payment mechanism not just for expenses that are unexpected and large, but for nearly all healthcare expenses. We’ve become so used to health insurance that we don’t realize how absurd that is. We can’t imagine paying for gas with our auto-insurance policy, or for our electric bills with our homeowners insurance, but we all assume that our regular checkups and dental cleanings will be covered at least partially by insurance. Most pregnancies are planned, and deliveries are predictable many months in advance, yet they’re financed the same way we finance fixing a car after a wreck—through an insurance claim.

Insurance is probably the most complex, costly, and distortional method of financing any activity; that’s why it is otherwise used to fund only rare, unexpected, and large costs.

Imagine sending your weekly grocery bill to an insurance clerk for review, and having the grocer reimbursed by the insurer to whom you’ve paid your share. An expensive and wasteful absurdity, no?

The result is predictable: for every doctor in the USA, we now have 2 people employed in health insurance administration.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:18 AM
 
13,897 posts, read 7,400,560 times
Reputation: 25379
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Ron Williams Former CEO of Aetna is on TV and said it's the right replacement plan to replace ACA. Good to hear.
Well yeah. It kills the $500K max CEO salary law. Aetna can pay their CEO more but they can't write anything more than $500K of his total comp off for Federal corporate income taxes. What ex-health insurance corporate CEO wouldn't support a full repeal of ACA?
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:26 AM
 
13,897 posts, read 7,400,560 times
Reputation: 25379
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
One of the best things we can do is to stop calling healthcare insurance "insurance." It isn't insurance and hasn't been since the 1930s.
Nope.

Until ACA, you could buy true private health insurance. The premium was 100% risk-based. To make it affordable, you couldn't get a policy that covered pre-existing conditions.

Corporate group plans have always been 100% risk-based. If the demographics of the group are young & healthy, the insurance costs far less than if the demographics of the group are old and unhealthy. The group plan for a rust belt machine tool company with mostly 50-something and 60-something employees has outrageous premiums compared to a tech company that mostly has 20-something and 30-something college educated professionals who don't usually smoke, drink heavily, do drugs, have psych issues, and who typically are getting more exercise.

Before ACA, Medicaid/CHIP and Medicare weren't risk based and everything else was. You could move from corporate group plan to corporate group plan with a pre-existing condition if you didn't have any breaks in coverage. If you had a break, you couldn't get coverage for that pre-existing condition.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:15 AM
 
9,192 posts, read 9,271,792 times
Reputation: 28799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve40th View Post
The government should just get out of health care... All they do is raise costs.. Dont tell me they do anything to help anyone out.

Stop forcing people to get it. If they choose not to get it, then they pay or die.. Thats a choice of theirs..
Otherwise, get out of it, let the insurance companies and hospitals systems work for us.
And stop allowing someone to sue the crap out of a doctor for stupid issues that are non life altering.
So, you believe we should abolish Medicare and Medicaid correct?

I don't suspect you'll find much support that idea.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:30 AM
 
Location: SoCal
13,226 posts, read 6,326,744 times
Reputation: 9838
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Well yeah. It kills the $500K max CEO salary law. Aetna can pay their CEO more but they can't write anything more than $500K of his total comp off for Federal corporate income taxes. What ex-health insurance corporate CEO wouldn't support a full repeal of ACA?
I think if you follow the news, this is an EX-CEO. The current CEO may not like the proposed plan. So your argument is not correct. Except this guy knows the insurance business well to make that kind of statement.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:28 AM
 
29,775 posts, read 34,863,854 times
Reputation: 11705
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Nope.

Until ACA, you could buy true private health insurance. The premium was 100% risk-based. To make it affordable, you couldn't get a policy that covered pre-existing conditions.

Corporate group plans have always been 100% risk-based. If the demographics of the group are young & healthy, the insurance costs far less than if the demographics of the group are old and unhealthy. The group plan for a rust belt machine tool company with mostly 50-something and 60-something employees has outrageous premiums compared to a tech company that mostly has 20-something and 30-something college educated professionals who don't usually smoke, drink heavily, do drugs, have psych issues, and who typically are getting more exercise.

Before ACA, Medicaid/CHIP and Medicare weren't risk based and everything else was. You could move from corporate group plan to corporate group plan with a pre-existing condition if you didn't have any breaks in coverage. If you had a break, you couldn't get coverage for that pre-existing condition.
That is why educators have often had great insurance and group health insurance rates. That really worked with Long Term Care insurance sold through professional associations.
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