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Old 07-24-2017, 05:32 AM
 
20,707 posts, read 13,720,547 times
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Interesting read:


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/y...-medicaid.html
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,388 posts, read 9,131,891 times
Reputation: 13025
It is nice that there is a gov!t program in place that would alllow a spouse to not be 100% impoverished should the other spouse need LTC. This has been on the books since the 1990s. This program allows the at home spouse to keep ones house, car, furniture, clothes, TV and a decent financial reserve and income while their spouse spends the last part of their life in LTC. 100% legal and for those with moderate estates and income, a life saver.

Thanks for sharing this important info.

Mrs5150 is an attorney who helps people with this sort of thing and it ain't all that expensive as far as attorney fees go. And for many with smaller estates (under $150k, excluding one's home and car)it involves little more than visiting the local welfare dept.

And of course, there are those who will work the system. But the abuses of the few should not be used to deprive the many, for whom this law was intended.

For those with larger estates, good luck planning for the unlikely possibility of going into LTC five years before the fact. Better to just buy LTC insurance which they can afford!

Last edited by Mr5150; 07-24-2017 at 06:16 AM..
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:08 AM
 
Location: ☀️ SWFL ⛱ 🌴
2,427 posts, read 1,663,961 times
Reputation: 8643
This quote in the article caught my attention:

I’m a taxpayer and paid into this system. I was thrifty, and my neighbors were not. They went on vacation. In fact, I watched them go when I was home at Christmas, and they came back with suntans. And now my heirs should get nothing? To accuse me of gaming the system is absurd; I just don’t want to be taken by it.

The thrifty vs the spenders is often the underlying conflict present in many topics in the retirement forum. With Medicaid, the old ant and grasshopper fable comes to mind, except in this newest version, the grasshopper gets to continue playing with little consequence and the ant needs a lawyer.

Last edited by jean_ji; 07-24-2017 at 06:28 AM..
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:23 AM
 
71,463 posts, read 71,629,249 times
Reputation: 49027
as i just mentioned in another discussion , more and more states are offering long term care partnership plans .

the reason states are going to partnership ltc plans is they realized impoverishing the stay at home spouse once medicaid picks up the tab leaves 2 people on public assistance not just 1 .

they decided they are better off collecting premiums and only having 1 of the 2 being supported by welfare systems.

that is why the tools and laws we have regarding medicaid and assets are left in place . just like our tax system , your share of taxes is whatever you can legally get them down to using the tools and laws left in place .

no one wants a state full of impoverished seniors . that does harm to the economy and everyone else . almost all states now have some form of LTC partnership plans in place . only two , one of which is new york offer full asset and income protection . the rest are called dollar for a dollar plans .

if medicaid spends 500k than 500k in assets is protected . ny offers that type as well as total asset protection .

the plans are priced so by the time you are in the sweet spot for some form of care you paid in about 1 years stay in premiums
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:47 AM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,848,700 times
Reputation: 11675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
It is nice that there is a gov!t program in place that would alllow a spouse to not be 100% impoverished should the other spouse need LTC. This has been on the books since the 1990s. This program allows the at home spouse to keep ones house, car, furniture, clothes, TV and a decent financial reserve and income while their spouse spends the last part of their life in LTC. 100% legal and for those with moderate estates and income, a life saver.

Thanks for sharing this important info.

Mrs5150 is an attorney who helps people with this sort of thing and it ain't all that expensive as far as attorney fees go. And for many with smaller estates (under $150k, excluding one's home and car)it involves little more than visiting the local welfare dept.

And of course, there are those who will work the system. But the abuses of the few should not be used to deprive the many, for whom this law was intended.

For those with larger estates, good luck planning for the unlikely possibility of going into LTC five years before the fact. Better to just buy LTC insurance which they can afford!
In addition to the affluent buying LTC there is the increase in luxury CCRC's including some with luxury single family estate homes to provide luxury one stop shopping for shelter and health care.

http://searstone.com/photo-gallery-cary-nc
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,356 posts, read 3,689,532 times
Reputation: 4084
The limits are probably to low but writing laws that do not have loop holes can be hard.

I think the spouse should be able to maintain a standard of living close to what they had using the couples assets. However at death medicaid should have a lean against the estate.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,139 posts, read 3,504,154 times
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At death Medicaid can go through the Estate Recovery program. There are exceptions as to when this will kick in and be pursued in probate. In Ohio, if a surviving spouse or adult child (who cared for the recipient for 2 years and kept them out of a nursing home) or a disabled adult still live in the house, then the Estate Recovery program will not pursue a lien against the property. This is one example of a legal protection.
Other examples, and planning for Medicaid LTC should be done with an Elderlaw attorney or a legal service for seniors. We have ProSeniors in Ohio as an example.
I used to help families begin the planning process for Medicaid qualification for their loved ones. I must warn that there are some transfers of property and assets that families may try to do that can result in their family member not qualifying for Medicaid. Giving away money or signing over deeds are examples.
Be sure to get legal advice through your Area on Aging, Senior Communities, Medicaid offices, and even the Alzheimer's Association has excellent education available through help lines, brochures, and even workshops. Make the calls, get the info beforehand and plan ahead for peace of mind.
Unless you are super rich, if you stay in LTC for years as a permanent placement, you will likely go on Medicaid. It is just a fact. Medicare only covers for rehab stays for 100 days at a time and insurance plans may be finite. Assets run out.
I have known of individuals in nursing homes with houses out in the community and no one living in them and no legal protection from liens. After a time the state will put a lien on it and auction it off to pay for the nursing home care if it is permanent.
In some ways you are better off poor than wealthy if you go in a nursing home because if you don't plan ahead, your family will likely inherit nothing but the burden of dealing with your estate and Medicaid will be just one more creditor lining up at the probate door.

Last edited by HappyDogToday; 07-24-2017 at 07:53 AM..
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:52 AM
 
6,875 posts, read 7,267,992 times
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I personally have a problem with the term "loophole." (In the context of this conversation.)

Medicaid guidelines are about the limits on assets/income/ etc. one can have and qualify for that program.

Steps or strategies a person or family can use when estate planning are for that purpose -- estate planning.

Estate planning is estate planning. Medicaid eligibility guidelines are another matter all together.
No loopholes at all.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:11 AM
 
29,764 posts, read 34,848,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
I personally have a problem with the term "loophole." (In the context of this conversation.)

Medicaid guidelines are about the limits on assets/income/ etc. one can have and qualify for that program.

Steps or strategies a person or family can use when estate planning are for that purpose -- estate planning.

Estate planning is estate planning. Medicaid eligibility guidelines are another matter all together.
No loopholes at all.
Agreed!
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:11 AM
 
71,463 posts, read 71,629,249 times
Reputation: 49027
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
I personally have a problem with the term "loophole." (In the context of this conversation.)

Medicaid guidelines are about the limits on assets/income/ etc. one can have and qualify for that program.

Steps or strategies a person or family can use when estate planning are for that purpose -- estate planning.

Estate planning is estate planning. Medicaid eligibility guidelines are another matter all together.
No loopholes at all.
exactly . all these things you can do to protect yourself and your spouse from being impoverished are purposely left in place
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