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Old 07-30-2017, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,243 posts, read 8,538,301 times
Reputation: 35674

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
when i got my first paychecks and saw how much was deducted........ and the party of tax and spend and redistribution are the democrats...

thats when i started leaning right


same thing happened to my son....
Never bugged me...gotta pay for the public good even if it doesn't benefit you directly....I never had kids but I pay a ton of property tax!...I've only gotten more liberal over time but I can trace the start back to a sociology class in college. The structural causes of poverty and discrimination are huge and have changed little over the decades.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:10 PM
 
1,062 posts, read 490,660 times
Reputation: 4051
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Never bugged me...gotta pay for the public good even if it doesn't benefit you directly....I never had kids but I pay a ton of property tax!...I've only gotten more liberal over time but I can trace the start back to a sociology class in college. The structural causes of poverty and discrimination are huge and have changed little over the decades.
This. Thanks Reneeh.


It takes a village.
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:07 PM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
3,181 posts, read 2,857,897 times
Reputation: 4878
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Never bugged me...gotta pay for the public good even if it doesn't benefit you directly....I never had kids but I pay a ton of property tax!...I've only gotten more liberal over time but I can trace the start back to a sociology class in college. The structural causes of poverty and discrimination are huge and have changed little over the decades.
Me three.....

Really tired of the "You're on Your Own" meme that people tout today.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:36 PM
 
967 posts, read 919,527 times
Reputation: 1890
My adult son was talking to me one time and noted that an article he had read suggested that people become more conservative the older they get. He asked me if I found this to be true in my own life. I was rather surprised when I thought about it, because I told him that actually I have become more liberal leaning the older I am.

My parents and grandparents were staunch Republicans, as were our extended family (they all still are). I remember being in grade school when Nixon vs Kennedy was the talk of the day, and firmly being in the Nixon camp, as that is what I heard at home. It kind of puzzles me that my lower middle class, factory working, family were so loyal to a political party that seems to be more concerned with gains for the wealthy. However, I can understand that certain values of that party (at least back then, if not currently) were appealing to them.

Once eligible, I have voted in every election save but 2 local ones. I have registered as a Democrat and an Independent over the years, but when allowed, I tend to vote for the candidate, not just the party. It saddens me greatly that our country is so politically divided, to the point of name-calling and derogatory comments. I would guess that generally all who take the time to vote or to be politically active care greatly about our country, despite sometimes opposing views on how to achieve greatness. That's what I try to remember.....we all care.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:55 PM
 
15,292 posts, read 4,040,543 times
Reputation: 11038
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
when i got my first paychecks and saw how much was deducted........ and the party of tax and spend and redistribution are the democrats...

thats when i started leaning right


same thing happened to my son....
So you weren't paying attention when GW Bush - when the deficit was zero - gave tax cuts out of borrowed money and ran up the deficit...and then fought wars on money we didn't have, which caused more deficit and debt - and then lorded over the Great Recession, which caused an even more massive shortfall of taxes.

I'll give you one thing. If you are your son have the view that "we don't want to pay for the wars or tax cuts for billionaires and for (even your own) health care at full price...then you have picked the right party.

I was taught to pay for stuff I buy - not steal it from others. Even thinking about tax cuts when we have a large deficit and 20 Trillion dollar debt means one thing - you are stealing from your son's children and their children and so on. They will have the pay all the money back with interest because you don't like the deductions.

I'm sure when you hit 66 and collect SS and then Medicare (worth 20K or more per year to you), you'll have some understanding about those paycheck deductions.
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Old 07-30-2017, 09:01 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,920 posts, read 6,267,579 times
Reputation: 12380
Default From being very liberal to being moderately conservative

I was born in 1957. Obviously when I was six I didn't understand politics. I did understand the radio stories about "Negroes" being met with fire-hoses and attack dogs for the sin of going to school. I vaguely understood the aspirational and prostest songs such as "Blowin' in the Wind," "If I Had a Hammer," "We Shall Overcome" and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone." As the sixties went on I was on the side of "peace" in Vietnam and of the Earth Day movement. I supported the Pentagon Papers publication. All of this was between ages six and 14.

This began to change with the Lod Airport massacre in May 1972 in Tel Aviv and the Olympics Massacre that same year. The condemnations of both atrocities by liberal politicians was mixed with "understanding" of Arab anger. I felt at the time that a senseless murder was a senseless murder. Still, one of the last things I did with my father was distribute literature for the McGovern campaign on November 5, 1972, two days before the election.

My father was a staunch liberal. His death on January 5, 1973 really set my mind free politically. I started liking the "cornball" country music he detested. I didn't like to admit to my friends that I rather liked Gordon Sinclair's "The Americans" which was on AM radio, if I recall correctly, in April and May 1973. White I thrilled to Nixon's travails that spring, the following summer and winter and his resignation in August 1974, I supported the Nixon Pardon. And I may add, alone in my high school.

While I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976, and even going to the Democratic Convention with a press pass, I found his growing affection for left-wing causes painful. I voted for him in 1980, mostly out of fear of the novelty and dramatic change that Reagan threatened. I actually did likewise in 2016, voting for Clinton. But I correctly predicted that deregulation, in particular decontrol of oil and gasoline prices, would lower costs for Americans. As liberals began to champion nonsense causes such as "global warming" and became increasingly aligned with forces that wanted to harm the U.S. I almost completely parted company with what misguided people call "liberalism." Frankly it is control-freak fascism with a politically correct name.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:06 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,235 posts, read 6,340,776 times
Reputation: 9854
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
when i got my first paychecks and saw how much was deducted........ and the party of tax and spend and redistribution are the democrats...

thats when i started leaning right


same thing happened to my son....
Haha, that's one of my kid's. She voted for Obama in 2008, but since she started working, she changed her party affiliation to GOP since, and I didn't have anything to do with it.

It's not that we mind paying tax but you can see the tax and spend party, and not spending for the good infrastructure as they claim. Take California for example, they didn't spend money to fix the damn dams. But they have money for a bullet train. It's dumb and dumber.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:32 PM
 
63 posts, read 61,751 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
For those of us who have spent 50 or more years being aware of political and social issues we have seen a lot of changes in beliefs and attitudes held by the majority of people over the past few decades. What is something you believe now that you thought that you would never change your mind about when you were younger?
When I was in high school, I was vehemently anti-choice, even for cases of rape. As I approach 40, I cringe that I could have ever thought that, and fully believe a woman's choice should be hers only.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,513,144 times
Reputation: 15950
My family were farmers and rock-solid Republicans, and they had good reason to be; most people today don't recognize that most Northern states had a fairly well-functioning welfare system long before the coming of the New Deal, administered at the county rather than the state level. A portion of property taxes were designated as a "poor tax" and the funds administered by what was usually called an "Overseer of the Poor"; my grandfather served as one at one time. The Overseer's job was to examine each request for help on an individual basis; those truly in need and unable to perform much in the way of physical labor got help -- more often than not in the form of simple groceries and the like, rather than cash. But work, and usually not very pleasant work, such as shoveling manure, could almost always be arranged for the able-bodied, so the O. P. was usually none too popular with the ne'er-do-wells who can be found in every community.

Admittedly, the Great Depression of the Thirties ravaged the American economy in way that could not have occurred before the migration of millions of people from the farms to the cities between 1900 and 1930. Some communities -- the modest-sixed industrial towns of Ohio and Indiana are a good example -- solved this by encouraging departed sons and daughters to return to the old homestead and ride the storm out. But this wasn't always possible in the industrial "magnets" like Detroit and Pittsburgh, or in agrarian states were new machinery allowed large numbers of agricultural laborers to be "tractored out", as depicted in Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath.

But it never failed to raise the resentment of my Grand-Dad (who was to live to the age of 90) that when the Democrats finally gained control of the Pennsylvania Legislature and Governorship in the mid-Thirties and a system of cash Unemployment Compensation was instituted, that some of the hardest and least-motivated individuals he'd opposed for years, were the first in line.

Obviously, I've lived long enough, lived in enough places (six states). and worked at enough of a variety of jobs to recognize that daily life in an industrial, (and increasingly, post-industrial) society is a fragile thing. So I don't begrudge the effort to help those who fall upon hard times through no fault of their own, and/or are willing to play the game by the rules. But I also recognize quite clearly, that a "safety net" left entirely to the administration of those who have no direct incentive to operate efficiently, and every incentive to "recognize" a bigger problem, and seek a bigger budget and staff, is a slap in the face of those who take responsibility for themselves and their own. And I know that many of those with whom I got my education remain sheltered in their suburban, corporate world -- and have no recognition of an increasingly larger cohort of people who are skilled at "playing the system"; my Grand-Dad would have a few well-chosen (and likely unprintable) words on that subject.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 07-30-2017 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 07-30-2017, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Kirkland, WA (Metro Seattle)
4,000 posts, read 3,260,166 times
Reputation: 7124
Gay Civil Unions (Domestic Partnerships): against, switched to for. I still disagree with Gay "Marriage", in that marriage is traditionally a religious ceremony and thus a "gay marriage" runs afoul of tenets of various major religions, notably Catholicism and Islam.

But legal unions, in the governmental and administrative sense? I'm all for it, now.

Why: two friends I respect, a man and woman, are also two of the most independent yet symbiotic (to one another) people I've ever met. They have no time for others, usually, though are incredibly smart and interesting people. I respect their privacy. From the guy, I learned a couple vital skills (tradecraft) outside the theme of this thread. From his partner, I learned conversational French, and much more about her world travels. I wouldn't call them "good" or "giving" people, but they're definitely something else.

And, neither wanted to be married to one another, in the legal sense of it, just because they were the last two on earth anyone would "force" to do anything. They'd both married, and divorced, young with no children then or now. That's just how they rolled.

So one day, while debating this or that, the guy David sat me down:

David: "You've known us long enough to know we don't take **** from the government or anyone else regarding what we do. We choose not to marry, it is irrelevant to our relationship."

BB (me): "yeah, got that!

David: "But you need to think of us as a Civil Union/DP, but we are excluded from that as-well. We don't like that one bit: we do everything married couples do, everything. But guess what: in an emergency, we cannot be at each other's side to make life-or-death decisions. We cannot easily swap property in a community sense under the law, and in the event of the other's death there will be major trouble in terms of assets. We cannot easily list on the other's life insurance policy as spouse or other manner to ease the paperwork. In fact the bulk of what married couples can do legally, we are excluded from, in terms of administrative documentation and rights."

BB: (pondering): "That's outrageous, given how you two are!"

David: "Oh really? Given your respect for how we are, then: how would you feel if Girl Wonder (his partner) was a guy, and we'd been together lo these past (at the time) 13 years, and wanted some sort of Civil Union/DP?

BB: (uhm....uhhh....uhhhh...)

David: "Think hard on that one, chummy."

A few years later, CU/DP was legalized. For same sex couples, too. I could not then, or now, think again of a single moral or legal reason why such couples should *not* be allowed to do this.

Gay marriage legalization, later on, changed all that. But the point was made with me.
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