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And staying can be very hard on the people that you push to do stuff for you that allows you to "live on your own". We all have to know our limitations and hanging on to a multi-level house when you don't have at least a bedroom and bathroom on your living level is the sign of someone not planning ahead.
I often hear of retired folks intentionally buying 2 story homes because going up and down stairs every day will keep them in shape! Guess they can't imagine any kind of accident or later illness that might burst their bubble - more reasonable to have a workout plan to stay in shape and not use your home.
That's why we went with a ranch in retirement. There are other ways to exercise your legs without having stairs in your home. But once you're immobile, a ranch style house will be much easier to live in.
My mom is the perfect example of wanting to leave something behind at the expense of her own needs and health.
Mom is 77 and lives on SS and a small pension to the tune of about $24K per year. On top of that she still works part time and picks up about $8K per year. She owns her home outright. The home is the problem. It's an Upstate NY Dutch Colonial with several steps about 12, just to get to the front porch. Inside she has another flight of stairs to get upstairs to the bedrooms. She is a cancer survivor and has had several bypasses. Nobody in my family has ever lived past 85. She has fallen twice. Once outside on the icy sidewalk getting to her part time job, she broke her arm. She fell inside the house and hurt her back so badly she laid on the floor till I went over because I couldn't get her on the phone. This was over 24 hours. Needed an ambulance, went to the hospital, tried to get up and fell and broke her leg. You can't make this stuff up . . .
I have pleaded with her, my wife has pleaded with her to sell the house and move to a 55+ apartment or community near us. No ice, no stairs, public transportation plus we'd be nearby to help. Between her fixed income and the proceeds of her home (current est is $165K) if she sold she would be set for life.
She won't do it. She says she doesn't want to move in to a retirement home. We've tried to explain that's not 55+ housing is. She says she wants her independence. Then I get the truth. She has a will and the house is being left to me. She explained that it's the one thing she's ever owned and she wants me to get it, sell it when she's gone and remember her. I have tried over and over to explain I don't need the house or the money. I've done well thank you. I've tried explaining that it makes me feel terrible when she stays in that house and falls and breaks an arm or leg just because she wants to stay there to leave it behind. I hate that house and what it stands for. I try not to bring up the subject anymore because it's the proverbial banging your head against a wall, but every now and then I can't help it and try to get her to see the light and sell. Not worry about leaving something behind.
You can't control how your grandma wants to spend her money. You can control what you do, not what she does. So, you have to decide what you're willing to do or not.
But, I am now over 60 years old, and I've been mostly estranged from my adult daughter for a few years now. We're working on our relationship, but honestly, I'm a bit scared of letting her back into my life. Because the only person in my world who treats me like an idiot child is my daughter. And the silly thing is, I took care of myself as an adult before I had her, then as an adult parent, and now as an adult senior. I have not become an infant, just because she became an adult.
It's really horrible when younger people treat you like you're an idiot when you get older. And I can tell you that until or if she ever gets dementia, her mind is the same mind as a 30 or 40 year old woman, with the same smarts, etc. The same ability to make her own adult decisions about her own money.
Now, if she's expecting people to take care of her, and those people don't want to, they should say so.
But, I highly encourage you to stop thinking of her as someone incapable of making her own decisions. Pretend she's someone your age, as smart and capable as you. Because she probably is - and maybe even more so. Just because you're younger, doesn't make you right and her wrong.
And if it's only a few years until she's in assisted living, sheesh, leave her be. But, I wouldn't bet on that either.
I know you really care, but you sound rather controlling. Her decisions are hers.
And just a by the by....people who grew up in the Great Depression horde their money/savings. And, really, it makes way more sense financially to live debt-free than not to. At her age, there is no long-term gain ahead of her as far as equity down the road. I don't think it would be profitable for her to take on a mortgage at her age. In that, I think she's right and you're wrong. You're looking at taking on a mortgage from a young person's point of view, which I don't think is appropriate for your grandma.
Other than a shower....heck, just get her a porta-potty lol. But let her decide, and if she's imposing on people who don't want to be imposed upon, then those people need to start saying no.
Investigate an electric stair lift, the single seat style. Friends of ours installed one in their 1700 sq ft colonial when the husband's 80+ year old mother moved in with them a decade or more ago. His mother is long gone now but the lift remains. The wife has always enjoyed using it (I will refrain from any comment on this) and now their Grandchildren LOVE it.
I was amazed to see how unobtrusive these lifts are and realize it may be a solution for my wife and I in our two story home as we age into our 70's and beyond. The chair can pivot at the end of the run, and the seat can lift to a vertical position, to keep the stairway free for those walking up or down
It simply bolted to the existing carpeted stair treads, and I believe they had an additional electrical outlet installed at the top of the stairs where the lift terminates to eliminate using an unsightly extension cord.
OP, obviously you care about your GM or you wouldn't have posted.
At this stage you all are just exploring alternatives....just know it could take a while for GM to believe that things are changing.
The three of you can just keep presenting ideas and alternatives to your GM about how to make grandma's life easier. Try subtle psychology on GM. Just know that as one person said.....that approach just takes longer. But forcing the issue will make grandma more resistant. Try to point out all the positives about whatever move she chooses....socializing with other people, activities right at the facility, cooking done for you -- you just go and eat, shuttle service to nearby amenities, etc.
As for putting a bathroom on the first floor.
1) There aren't many retro fits and universal access changes that absolutely canNOT be done to a home. Now, whether your grandmother or anyone else is willing to PAY for whatever changes may need to be done -- is another story. The harder the remodel is to do, the more it will cost.
2) One question is -- are those changes WORTH doing? Will it change the house enough to hinder a sale (although handicapped access is a selling point for some). If you spend money on those changes -- realistically -- how long would that allow GM to stay in the house anyway?
I reread your post, and as of now you haven't said she' can't be alone. So it seems GM just has a mobility issue. But you also said she uses a walker. So I take it she's a fall risk even when walking. So the stairs are not her only mobility issue. But she's still cooking and cleaning and doing all her own laundry. Taking care of her own personal needs, etc?
3) How much money DOES GM have? Enough to make changes to the house, stay for a few years, and then still move into a place if she can't be alone at that point?
How long would her money last if she (you all, for her) hired help and companions to just do what she can't do. There's nothing wrong with that. I hired a lawn service -- just because I didn't want to cut the grass. People hire professionals to do things they don't want to -- or can't do -- all the time.
IF GM can afford it -- and at the point your assistance is too draining on the three of you.....then you could also hire someone to do the things YOU and your mom and aunt are doing for GM.
If she has a good amount of money -- how concerned do you really even need to be -- about her spending money on the house so she can stay.....even IF she may not get all that money back should she eventually sell or have to move.
In one scenario she's spending money on a move or on an ALF, in the other she's spending money on the house and services, but she gets to stay where SHE wants to be....in her own home.
She cooks for herself, but mostly just frozen dinners and other small meals. She's not a big eater. I get the groceries usually once during the week, aunt gets her stuff on the weekend. She's never liked to clean - when grandfather was able, he did it. I've done it since I've been back, and before that she hired someone. Aunt does most of the laundry.
Putting a bathroom in will likely involve knocking down part of the kitchen/dining area wall and building into the backyard, running plumbing, etc. Let's face it, there's nowhere to put it now - you only have 1,200 sq. ft cut between kitchen/dining, a small living room, 3 small bedrooms, one medium size bathroom, a TINY master bathroom (my shoulders hit both the vanity and the wall on the other side when I've tried to use that restroom), and the den/garage area in the basement.
Aunt said the $200,000 condo she wants last night is not doable. If the house sold for $120,000, that's only an $80,000 mortgage. If that is not doable with no other debt, then I'm guessing she doesn't have as much as she lets on.
She's already staying with the aunt "almost permanently." Your aunt is about to be unemployed and on shaky ground financially. Why not have your aunt stay with her mother permanently, and contribute something to the rent or mortgage from her retirement check?
Your grandmother could then sell her old house and have an even bigger nest egg.
Without getting too much outside the realm of this thread, aunt is likely to be laid off by the first of the year. She's 56 now. She has a year's severance. That will put her at 57, and likely to 2019 (when she will be 58) before she is having to draw down any savings at all. Her husband died in 2010, and he was himself a beneficiary of a lot of life insurance from his and his late first wife's family members. Aunt has kind of been at the bottom of all this life insurance money cascading downstream. She's not rich by any means but it is probably enough to get her 59.5 and 60 when she get into her own retirement and husband's SS. She probably couldn't retire permanently but I don't think she's in a crisis.
Aunt still has a mortgage, but is underwater on the condo. We are in a slow/no growth area and a lot of what is happening in the economy in mainstream areas doesn't even apply here. I think both of them living in the house, plus a stair lift, would be viable unless grandmother has to go to ALF. They could also sell the house and grandmother move in (better - as aunt's condo has a much better layout) with aunt.
I live just a mile from grandmother, so I'm the easy house help for now, but will likely be getting an apartment or small condo in a town half an hour away within the next two months. My employer may be going through a merger and I think our team would be some of the easy fat to cut. I doubt I will stay in this area more than a few years, tops.
My friend in the U.K. does this for a living, outfitting home with stairs for seniors. No need to move. Why can't we do that here in USA.
Cuz some people are weird about having things done to their house, even if it is free
My 100% VA disabled brother said no to a new shower and toilet because the ones he had recently installed had cost him a pretty penny. And to him a pretty penny is whatever is the cheapest at the home improvement store - ! So I say - go ahead and fall down - it is your right.
Actually he is a real pain in the behind.
It gets hard trying to help people like this. My mom was a breeze. Now I have another ill sibling that keeps forgetting how to check her blood sugar - !
She cooks for herself, but mostly just frozen dinners and other small meals. She's not a big eater. I get the groceries usually once during the week, aunt gets her stuff on the weekend. She's never liked to clean - when grandfather was able, he did it. I've done it since I've been back, and before that she hired someone. Aunt does most of the laundry.
Putting a bathroom in will likely involve knocking down part of the kitchen/dining area wall and building into the backyard, running plumbing, etc. Let's face it, there's nowhere to put it now - you only have 1,200 sq. ft cut between kitchen/dining, a small living room, 3 small bedrooms, one medium size bathroom, a TINY master bathroom (my shoulders hit both the vanity and the wall on the other side when I've tried to use that restroom), and the den/garage area in the basement.
Aunt said the $200,000 condo she wants last night is not doable. If the house sold for $120,000, that's only an $80,000 mortgage. If that is not doable with no other debt, then I'm guessing she doesn't have as much as she lets on.
The point was not for her to put in the bath bedroom or for you to think of reasons why it was a bad idea.
The point was for HER to figure it out herself so that she would buy into making a decision other than what she wants but what works best.
The point was to offer options so she could decide and own the consequences. Only then will she look at overall reality
Good luck.
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Interior Funicular
! So I say - go ahead and fall down - it is your right.
