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Old 08-21-2017, 10:27 PM
 
11,237 posts, read 11,259,675 times
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You think the problem is bad now, "you ain't seen nuttin' yet!" goes the familiar phrase.

I touched on this problem somewhat in this thread

Astonishing! For first time since 1880 more 18-34's live w/parents than on their own.

The root problem of elder orphans is twofold: 1. not getting married because it's either too expensive to set up married household, or men and women chose to be single because they can't find suitable mates and 2. going into so much debt starting with college education that they can't afford to move out on their own and so end up living with their parents well into middle age.

As the thread reads, more young adults 18-35 (34%) are now living with their parents than are marrying or cohabiting (32%). Living with parents naturally leads to no children and no spouse, the two characteristics of becoming an elder orphan. As the percentage of young adults living with their parents rises over the next 20 years from 34% right now to, say 45-50% the number of elder orphans will shoot through the roof because we're simply not getting married in sufficient numbers and more importantly, if we are getting married we're electing not to have kids because they're too expensive to raise. It's a frightening scenario.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,553,447 times
Reputation: 27645
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You think the problem is bad now, "you ain't seen nuttin' yet!" goes the familiar phrase.

I touched on this problem somewhat in this thread

Astonishing! For first time since 1880 more 18-34's live w/parents than on their own.

The root problem of elder orphans is twofold: 1. not getting married because it's either too expensive to set up married household, or men and women chose to be single because they can't find suitable mates and 2. going into so much debt starting with college education that they can't afford to move out on their own and so end up living with their parents well into middle age.

As the thread reads, more young adults 18-35 (34%) are now living with their parents than are marrying or cohabiting (32%). Living with parents naturally leads to no children and no spouse, the two characteristics of becoming an elder orphan. As the percentage of young adults living with their parents rises over the next 20 years from 34% right now to, say 45-50% the number of elder orphans will shoot through the roof because we're simply not getting married in sufficient numbers and more importantly, if we are getting married we're electing not to have kids because they're too expensive to raise. It's a frightening scenario.
I could easily end up this way. I'm an only child. I've had many relationships, but only came close to marrying once, and would need to basically fall head over heels for someone again. I haven't been that in love with someone in nearly ten years, and I doubt it will happen again anytime soon. I've not been in a serious relationship in about two years and even then, I didn't think it would lead to marriage.

I'm overweight, but I wouldn't consider myself ugly or unattractive for a chubby guy. I have a good job for the area's standards. No kids or significant personal baggage. Never been married. I probably drink too much but that is more of a function of a lack of things to do here and going out to socialize than anything else. I don't abuse anything else.

I have several long time friends around my age who have gotten married then busted up. The man almost always comes out on the short end of the stick, even if there are no kids and the incomes are about even. I've watched a 1%er uncle divorced and remarry the same woman several times, and each time they do this, he ends up six figures poorer.

None of this is appealing.

Once you get out of college, it becomes much tougher to find a mate IMO. Around here, a lot of people marry their high school or college sweetheart. If you miss that train, good luck finding anyone. There is almost no dating scene for younger people who make decent money and are single. It just doesn't exist here. I wouldn't say I've given up but I've had to lower standards to even date.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,658,574 times
Reputation: 35449
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You think the problem is bad now, "you ain't seen nuttin' yet!" goes the familiar phrase.

I touched on this problem somewhat in this thread

Astonishing! For first time since 1880 more 18-34's live w/parents than on their own.

The root problem of elder orphans is twofold: 1. not getting married because it's either too expensive to set up married household, or men and women chose to be single because they can't find suitable mates and 2. going into so much debt starting with college education that they can't afford to move out on their own and so end up living with their parents well into middle age.

As the thread reads, more young adults 18-35 (34%) are now living with their parents than are marrying or cohabiting (32%). Living with parents naturally leads to no children and no spouse, the two characteristics of becoming an elder orphan. As the percentage of young adults living with their parents rises over the next 20 years from 34% right now to, say 45-50% the number of elder orphans will shoot through the roof because we're simply not getting married in sufficient numbers and more importantly, if we are getting married we're electing not to have kids because they're too expensive to raise. It's a frightening scenario.
People have to stop thinking that getting married will keep them out of the elder orphanage. It won't. Not necessarily. I live in a HUD senior citizen complex that consists of three large high rise buildings. I would estimate there are at least 500 people living here. There are a few couples but that's about it. There are also siblings. Most people however are on their own.

The vast majority have been married. Some have been divorced but most are widows or widowers. The majority have children. A good deal of these children live great distances away. Some live driving distance. Some don't have any communication with their parents some do. Most however, do not. Or rarely.

The point is, no one gets any guarantees. I've said that time and time again. You have to make your own "family" be they friends or hired help or whatever. You have to be the adopter rather than the adoptee. One thing I see where I live that I like that I don't think has been mentioned on this thread is people looking out for each other. I see residents doing that for one another all the time. That can happen when everyone is in the same boat. I am not particularly gregarious. I prefer my alone time. But I have found a few nice people who would notice if I didn't leave my apartment for a day or two and vice versa.

This is called "making friends." It's also called joining a group or two that will miss you if you don't show up. It's also called connecting with others so you don't lose the ability to communicate with people. These are the little tricks I learned when I relocated to a new city twice in my life and knew no one.

I just can't say it enough, those who think that getting married and having kids is insurance against loneliness in their old age are taking a gamble rather than betting on a sure thing. I see it every day.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,304 posts, read 10,761,444 times
Reputation: 20540
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
There are choices. You keep saying "we' and "people" It could be "I" and "person". One parent stays home with the kids and pets, family medical leave, saving your vacation days because you know you might get "that call", these and other things are choices YOU make. I realize it is not always possible but planning, as in everything else, betters the odds.
You make it sound so simple to take off from work, your family, your responsibilities when the reality is that it's not. My husband's job requires 3 months notice for any vacation time more than 1 day. The vacation must be approved. And forget asking if it's around any major deadlines and he has major deadlines every month. By September 1st, he have to submit his vacation for the rest of the year and January. If he doesn't, he's out of luck. It's not like he gets months of vacation either....3 weeks...not much time. You can't roll it over either. You lose it all on December 31st.

Many people don't get vacation days or only a few. Many people can't save it for long either. Many people accrue it through out the year.

I'm self employed and the only employee 99% of the time. There's no way I can just take off without a LOT of planning....months worth of planning.

Yes, my husband would get FMLA. However there is NO paycheck with that. They only guarantee you will have a job to come back to. If you're out of the loop for any length of time, you're in trouble. if others can do your job for a few months, then why are you needed? Also out of sight, out of mind.

How exactly does one parent stay home with kid and pets for months or years? Many illnesses don't heal in a week. Cancer takes months or years. FMLA is only a few months and again without a paycheck. Dementia is a lifetime of illness. So just dropping everything and hopping on a plane isn't a fix for many illnesses. Neither is sending a check. Many people can't afford to send a check either.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,553,447 times
Reputation: 27645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
People have to stop thinking that getting married will keep them out of the elder orphanage. It won't. Not necessarily. I live in a HUD senior citizen complex that consists of three large high rise buildings. I would estimate there are at least 500 people living here. There are a few couples but that's about it. There are also siblings. Most people however are on their own.

The vast majority have been married. Some have been divorced but most are widows or widowers. The majority have children. A good deal of these children live great distances away. Some live driving distance. Some don't have any communication with their parents some do. Most however, do not. Or rarely.

The point is, no one gets any guarantees. I've said that time and time again. You have to make your own "family" be they friends or hired help or whatever. You have to be the adopter rather than the adoptee. One thing I see where I live that I like that I don't think has been mentioned on this thread is people looking out for each other. I see residents doing that for one another all the time. That can happen when everyone is in the same boat. I am not particularly gregarious. I prefer my alone time. But I have found a few nice people who would notice if I didn't leave my apartment for a day or two and vice versa.

This is called "making friends." It's also called joining a group or two that will miss you if you don't show up. It's also called connecting with others so you don't lose the ability to communicate with people. These are the little tricks I learned when I relocated to a new city twice in my life and knew no one.

I just can't say it enough, those who think that getting married and having kids is insurance against loneliness in their old age are taking a gamble rather than betting on a sure thing. I see it every day.
It doesn't eliminate the possibility, but it at least lowers the odds of ending up alone. Simply put, the more people who are around who are close to you, the odds are probably higher than someone will take you in or help you out.

I don't think people are giving enough due consideration to distances between relatives. If my job is eliminated, I'm going to have to move out of the area, likely at least three hours away, to get anything close to what I'm making now. While that's not half a world away, it makes coming back for every little thing difficult. I certainly couldn't assist the way I do now.

A great uncle of mine (who died before I was born) moved from here to Charlotte when he was young. He married a woman there and they had one son - no other children. That son moved to Florida after college. His mom was quite a bit older than my great uncle, and she was elderly and in poor health by the time he was in his early 30s. She tried to stay in Charlotte for a bit and I remember him flying back and forth quite a bit. Once he had his own children, this was no longer doable. She did end up moving, but she would have been orphaned otherwise.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Sugarland
13,758 posts, read 12,718,549 times
Reputation: 16619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
It doesn't eliminate the possibility, but it at least lowers the odds of ending up alone. Simply put, the more people who are around who are close to you, the odds are probably higher than someone will take you in or help you out.

I don't think people are giving enough due consideration to distances between relatives. If my job is eliminated, I'm going to have to move out of the area, likely at least three hours away, to get anything close to what I'm making now. While that's not half a world away, it makes coming back for every little thing difficult. I certainly couldn't assist the way I do now.

A great uncle of mine (who died before I was born) moved from here to Charlotte when he was young. He married a woman there and they had one son - no other children. That son moved to Florida after college. His mom was quite a bit older than my great uncle, and she was elderly and in poor health by the time he was in his early 30s. She tried to stay in Charlotte for a bit and I remember him flying back and forth quite a bit. Once he had his own children, this was no longer doable. She did end up moving, but she would have been orphaned otherwise.
I only want someone to help me die when I can no longer care for myself. It's a much simpler request than requiring someone to help me out indefinitely until I succumb to whatever fate has in store for me.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:20 AM
 
7,798 posts, read 4,385,889 times
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"Help you die" how? Most people can't even handle death - or illness, for that matter - these days; we've outsourced and institutionalized care from the cradle (daycare) to the grave (assisted living, nursing homes, and hospice facilities).


Ultimately, we all die alone.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Sugarland
13,758 posts, read 12,718,549 times
Reputation: 16619
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
"Help you die" how? Most people can't even handle death - or illness, for that matter - these days; we've outsourced and institutionalized care from the cradle (daycare) to the grave (assisted living, nursing homes, and hospice facilities).


Ultimately, we all die alone.
Via assisted suicide or euthanasia. I feel like it's such a simple request and I can't understand why people have to make a big deal about it. It's a definite solution to the problem whereas all this get married, have kids, make friends stuff is not. But I don't want to hijack the thread with this, so carry on.

Last edited by Sweet Like Sugar; 08-22-2017 at 10:46 AM..
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:59 AM
 
7,798 posts, read 4,385,889 times
Reputation: 11589
Maybe start another thread about it? In-patient (or even out-patient) hospice will basically do this for you... But if you mean you want a loved one to be present and hold your hand while you pass...that's what everyone would like, but again there are no guarantees, even if you're married and a parent. We really do need to start training "death doulas" now that most Americans have absolutely no experience with the traditional natural passages. Personally, I'm against suicide for spiritual reasons, so can't help you there.
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Sugarland
13,758 posts, read 12,718,549 times
Reputation: 16619
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
Maybe start another thread about it? In-patient (or even out-patient) hospice will basically do this for you... But if you mean you want a loved one to be present and hold your hand while you pass...that's what everyone would like, but again there are no guarantees, even if you're married and a parent. We really do need to start training "death doulas" now that most Americans have absolutely no experience with the traditional natural passages. Personally, I'm against suicide for spiritual reasons, so can't help you there.
I just mean that I want to be able to go somewhere (not another country), say that I'm ready to die, and have someone painlessly inject me with something that will kill me, so that there's no chance of me doing it wrong. If this were an option, I would see no point in worrying about becoming an elder orphan or not having a support system. But I guess I'm just weird.
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