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Old 09-29-2017, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,851,516 times
Reputation: 6379

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
I looked at the report quickly - including plowing thru the comments. Any idea what the 50% figure MEANS? Is it LTC where 2 or more activities of daily life cannot be performed (potentially initiating a policy claim). If so, how disabling really are these issues in terms of the care/cost profile? Or is it where a senior cannot manage their daily life without some sort of more minor (albeit vital, order in food, prepare a meal) supplemental assistance?

The distinction has enormous implications for the cost/care profile.
The best person to answer that would be LTCShop. However if I would be to give my opinion on that. I would surmise that the statistic means that they would have not needed LTC at all in the grand scheme of things. That being having a nurse practitioner or some other healthcare professional do home visits to provide services that could range from administering shots and immunizations, to full time home or nursing home care. I feel pretty confident though that there are a lot of people that have not needed home health services over their lifetime. I will use my mother for example. She had breast cancer twice. Both breasts removed yet she never ended up in nursing care until the very last 6 months. She checked herself into hospice after a battle with them because she was able to do everything required for a person to be self-sustaining. Even while there she was self-reliant. It was only after her last visit to her sister that she laid down and just didn't get up dying 2 days later. She was under no opiates or other drugs. She just went to sleep and passed. I know I was there. I was the last family member who saw her and I was there when she passed.

On the flip side right now my dad is in hospice. He has been there for the past 5 months. He no longer can do anything for himself. He cannot walk and barely stays awake. So I probably would pay through the nose for LTCi so I am not even going through that route. I want to be like my mom and go quietly and peacefully as well as quick.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:33 AM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,880,403 times
Reputation: 11710
One thing not mentioned often in planning for topic is the impact of a quality CCRC facility in your future. That can minimize your eventually needing LTC and help keep you in your community and close to friends and spouse if there is one.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
sent you a pm with the details. My point I guess is that there is a whole range of choices between expensive LTC insurance and doing nothing. Just because some one chose to not get the insurance doesn't mean there is not a plan in place.

Thank you, Eliza, for your replies.

I meant it when I said that many people turn off the left side of their brain (the logic side) when they talk about long-term care insurance. It's true. Most people do.

Long-term care insurance is very logical.

Your plan right now is to annuitize your two annuities to generate about $5,000 per month in income which you will use to help pay for your long-term care.

You can buy a long-term care policy that will pay $5,000 per month in benefits for about $155 per month in premium.

Annuities don't provide leverage.
Long-term care insurance does.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:20 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
you do not have to have an investment that guarantees you $5k per month. You just have to have a portfolio that can allow you to take 5k per month without affecting all your other income sources. Try not to think that everything is depending on investment. It could be a bank account of 500k with 0% interest and it will last 8 years 4 months.

At her age she can buy a long-term care policy that will pay $5,000 per month, for about $150 per month. Why does it make sense for her to risk the $500,000 bank account?
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:27 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
T

Anyhow, I have a number of personal circumstances (including our current home, location, community resources) that makes me think having one plan for less-intensive care with another for around-the-clock care (worst-case scenario) may make sense. LTCi would potentially not contribute much, even for the worst case scenario.

EveryLady, why would LTCi not contribute much?

Last edited by LTCShop; 09-29-2017 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:31 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post


I think the basic point is to have a plan. there are many options for covering long term care between buying very expensive ltc insurance and nothing. And many folks are able to find alternative solutions.

lots of great information though guys. thanks it really has been helpful for me


For about $150 per month you can have a long-term care policy that will pay the same $5,000 per month you plan on getting from annuitizing your annuities.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,851,516 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
At her age she can buy a long-term care policy that will pay $5,000 per month, for about $150 per month. Why does it make sense for her to risk the $500,000 bank account?
Again my words taken out of context. The question at the time was how to provide a 5k per month draw from investments. I gave an example and stated that it does not need to provide 5k of new money. The point I made then and will make again. Everyone is looking to keep principle for everything in perpetuity. That is a lofty goal. But the reality of the situation is that you need not have a portfolio that guarantees 5k a month in new money (return). You only need to have a pot of money to draw from that doesn't affect income elsewise. I presented that as I presented you our plan.

At that time you may not have agreed with my thinking but you could not argue the math of the logic. You can argue the emotion of having to provide for a loved one at a nursing home. You cannot dispute the fact that just under 75% of people going forward from here will spend only 100k in their lifetime on long term care. It is fact that if a person or couple have the resources and do not want to spend the income on something they may or may not need we are consider lunatics. Instead of us worrying about what might happen and live today like it might be our last because we know it might happen but still have a plan in place that does cover that possibility.

So again we are at different ends of this argument. I am not upset with you. Just at the tone that I am emotionally unready when in fact I think I and my wife have thought this through quite thoroughly.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:38 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
I agree with you. But we are talking about alternatives to LTCi. One way as you said is to have a separate account not tasked with anything but doing long term care. How many policies can take a person 6 years? How expensive would that be as well.

So lets say we have an individual that has income that is cola adjusted that includes SS pensions and they can live on that exclusively. They have a savings account that has a million. That person could then take 500k and set that aside in a mattress to draw upon when they need it for long term care. They are living on the other income and supplement it with the other 500k. Sounds to me to be quite reasonable to live on.


If no one is dependent upon you then it doesn't matter if you use all your money paying for long-term care. But even a single person with money has heirs? Why not protect some of your assets for the people/charity you care about?

In most states, a 61-year old male, in good health, can buy $500,000 of long-term care insurance for $190 per month. Doesn't that make sense to do?
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,851,516 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
If no one is dependent upon you then it doesn't matter if you use all your money paying for long-term care. But even a single person with money has heirs? Why not protect some of your assets for the people/charity you care about?

In most states, a 61-year old male, in good health, can buy $500,000 of long-term care insurance for $190 per month. Doesn't that make sense to do?
yes if you are that concerned about needing it. If not then no. I fall into the latter camp.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
I have been reading this thread. In fact I have started two just like it on the same topic.

As for your cost I agree it is kind of a small price to pay 4k a year for 5k per month for 3 years of coverage. But let me give you a little bit more that isn't written into the contract. That 5k doesn't pay for everything involved. You will have out of pocket expenses and that amount will depend on where you live.

Also that 4k is per person not per couple. You could get a hybrid that will be a bit more to cover both but only one at a time or pay half per. So think on that.

Lastly there are other ways to skin the cat. LTCShop and I have debated this a number of times and in our case we would not be mooching off the system either. I am not rich but I do have income. Our income not counting our savings is more than what we had while working. Top that off with about 3/4 of a million in retirement savings and a paid off house valued above 400k and rental property that nets another 1k per month in additional income above all the other income. We have decided that should one of us or even both of us be put into a nursing home or have to have home care we would take the proceeds of our home and move into a smaller apartment or condo. While waiting for the sale of the home we can draw on our nest egg to supplement any income draw the care would require.

We are both 60 and are healthy. We eat healthy and do not smoke. We are betting that we will not need that sort of care and if we do there will be either a sudden reason like an accident or it will be something that comes on over time. Each of those circumstances will either allow us to get compensated in the case of an accident or adjust and react to the illness. Yes it is a bet but we feel better about that then to make insurance companies wealthier. Our feeling only. Good luck on yours. We have our plan in place.

I'm not sure where you got those quotes from oldsoldier. A healthy 60 year old couple could share $1,000,000 of long-term care insurance benefits, paying $5,000 per month per person, for a combined premium of $3,843 per year. ($1,400 for the husband and $2,400 for the wife.) The benefits would last at least sixteen years!

You're correct that the policy would not cover every penny of the cost of care. But an extra $60,000 per person per year would be a big help, wouldn't it?
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