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Old 10-02-2017, 07:15 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,383 times
Reputation: 151

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
I've never quite understood this?

The policies are written as maximums per day or perhaps maximum pay out over time. Seems to me, the cost per region is mainly relevant for the consumer in order to figure out how much coverage to purchase. Right?

Don't buy enough coverage in a high-cost area that means the *consumer* has to pay more out-of-pocket. Why does it impact the LTCi company?

What if a consumer is living in NY but (to lower overall costs) is willing to utilize a SNF in Missouri?

In researching CCRCs, I came across a statistic that there are only about 5 CCRCs in NY state due to how highly they are regulated but there are dozens right across the state line in PA. A bunch around Philadelphia.

What crosses my mind is that state regs may impact successful utilization?

Totally ignorant here, no doubt. But ...


Because the state of NY mandates a minimum Daily Benefit for any policy that is part of the NY State Partnership for Long Term Care. That minimum Daily Benefit is about twice as high as the average Daily Benefit in the rest of the country.
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:17 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,383 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Gosh ... I've answered this three times. Liability.

You haven't answered it.

You're confusing collision insurance with property damage liability.
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:30 PM
 
3,100 posts, read 827,176 times
Reputation: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
You haven't answered it.

You're confusing collision insurance with property damage liability.
No. I'm not - but my answer was in a longer post. In any case, my concern is more medical liability. I could care less about collision insurance, and only have some now because I've been too lazy recently to redo the policies. It has been years ...

A current family struggle is the brother who doesn't own a car, has no auto insurance to layer an umbrella policy onto. And REFUSES to drive, which irritates the h*eck out of me since I become the chauffeur even though he's an excellent driver. Liability. (He has substantial assets.) One of the reasons that my daughter isn't driving yet is that it would ideally be in her own car, not mine. (State court cases affirm that even if I buy the car for her, my liability is reduced if the car is titled in her name).

I care enough about liability to cover it financially. Awards in this area can be shockingly high. Doing that, is relatively inexpensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
Because the state of NY mandates a minimum Daily Benefit for any policy that is part of the NY State Partnership for Long Term Care. That minimum Daily Benefit is about twice as high as the average Daily Benefit in the rest of the country.
Thanks. COL differences make sense under a Partnership Program. I haven't looked into LTCi to the point of getting quotes but did notice that pricing could be different depending on whether or not it was a Partnership Program, even though our state just covers dollar for dollar.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:00 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,383 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
You are thinking that we want to leave an inheritance that has to be probated and taxed. I am not interested in that. My wife and I saved this money for us. So for the next X years until we pass we plan on using that money. Quit trying to figure us out. You know I am right. You know I have the resources for everything short of a category 5 tornado. So if you want to sell people on LTCi please be my guess. I am not stopping you. I think in our case we do not need it. We are putting money towards our daughter's retirement now. Some of that is coming from our current assets so she will have her inheritance with less taxes. Please we know what we are doing.


oldsoldier1976: You are thinking that we want to leave an inheritance that has to be probated and taxed.


LTCSHOP: I'm not thinking that at all. You can avoid probate with a very simple revocable trust. I assumed you'd already had one. You and your wife can die with $2M ($1M each) and pay zero estate taxes in Massachusetts if you set up a credit shelter trust. It's very easy and inexpensive and if you don't have one you need to do that right away.



oldsoldier1976: My wife and I saved this money for us. So for the next X years until we pass we plan on using that money.


LTCSHOP: "Until we pass...." That's the problem. The hard part about retirement planning is we don't know when we're going die. You've got to make sure the second spouse to die doesn't run out of money. There's no do-over. The primary purpose of LTC insurance is to protect the lifestyle and income of the healthy spouse. LTC insurance improves the odds the second spouse won't run out of money.



oldsoldier1976: Quit trying to figure us out. You know I am right.


LTCSHOP: I don't know you're right. I think you're totally wrong. None of your arguments about LTC insurance have been logical. Most of your "facts" about LTC insurance have been false. And I'm not trying to figure you out. I just asked a simple question: Why would someone with a 7-figure net worth conclude it doesn't make sense to insure for long-term care, yet it does make sense to insure a vehicle that is worth less than $50,000? In other words, why own collision insurance when your potential loss is capped at the value of the car, but not insure against long-term care when your potential loss is seven figures?



oldsoldier1976: You know I have the resources for everything short of a category 5 tornado.


LTCSHOP: See previous paragraph.



oldsoldier1976: We are putting money towards our daughter's retirement now. Some of that is coming from our current assets so she will have her inheritance with less taxes.


LTCSHOP: If you want to put money towards your daughter's retirement, wouldn't it make sense to protect your assets from long-term care? If you buy a long-term care policy with a million dollars in benefits, that's potentially $1,000,000 more you'll be able to leave your daughter.



oldsoldier1976: Please we know what we are doing.


LTCSHOP: If you're worth $2M and you don't have a revocable trust and you don't have a credit shelter trust then...........
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:02 AM
 
71,779 posts, read 71,896,917 times
Reputation: 49345
here in ny we had an issue with state estate taxes when the limit was a lot lower . a disclaimer trust was perfect . it is a totally transparent trust that is not in effect until one spouse dies .

that spouse has 9 months to decide to throw a switch activating an irrevocable trust if needed splitting the estate in 2 if needed .

otherwise no trust exists and hence no issues that trusts can present .

it is very complex using trusts , especially if medicaid planning as a safety net is done .

putting your home in a revocable trust takes a protected asset which is not counted as an asset as far as getting medicaid and makes it countable. the house has to end up being sold and the money spend down to even qualify .

that may be the very opposite of your intentions .

here in ny if you go over the estate tax limits by 5% you don't just pay estate taxes on the overage ---YOU LOSE THE ENTIRE EXEMPTION AND PAY TAX FROM DOLLAR 1 .

so seeing a top notch elder law /estate attorney can be so important and don't play lawyer deciding on your own what you need . quite frankly not only did we not know about ny's tax cliff at the time but we never even heard of a disclaimer trust so we owe that all to consulting an expert . .

we never know what we don't know , only we never know what we don't know .

Last edited by mathjak107; 10-03-2017 at 04:26 AM..
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,855,118 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
oldsoldier1976: You are thinking that we want to leave an inheritance that has to be probated and taxed.


LTCSHOP: I'm not thinking that at all. You can avoid probate with a very simple revocable trust. I assumed you'd already had one. You and your wife can die with $2M ($1M each) and pay zero estate taxes in Massachusetts if you set up a credit shelter trust. It's very easy and inexpensive and if you don't have one you need to do that right away.



oldsoldier1976: My wife and I saved this money for us. So for the next X years until we pass we plan on using that money.


LTCSHOP: "Until we pass...." That's the problem. The hard part about retirement planning is we don't know when we're going die. You've got to make sure the second spouse to die doesn't run out of money. There's no do-over. The primary purpose of LTC insurance is to protect the lifestyle and income of the healthy spouse. LTC insurance improves the odds the second spouse won't run out of money.



oldsoldier1976: Quit trying to figure us out. You know I am right.


LTCSHOP: I don't know you're right. I think you're totally wrong. None of your arguments about LTC insurance have been logical. Most of your "facts" about LTC insurance have been false. And I'm not trying to figure you out. I just asked a simple question: Why would someone with a 7-figure net worth conclude it doesn't make sense to insure for long-term care, yet it does make sense to insure a vehicle that is worth less than $50,000? In other words, why own collision insurance when your potential loss is capped at the value of the car, but not insure against long-term care when your potential loss is seven figures?



oldsoldier1976: You know I have the resources for everything short of a category 5 tornado.


LTCSHOP: See previous paragraph.



oldsoldier1976: We are putting money towards our daughter's retirement now. Some of that is coming from our current assets so she will have her inheritance with less taxes.


LTCSHOP: If you want to put money towards your daughter's retirement, wouldn't it make sense to protect your assets from long-term care? If you buy a long-term care policy with a million dollars in benefits, that's potentially $1,000,000 more you'll be able to leave your daughter.



oldsoldier1976: Please we know what we are doing.


LTCSHOP: If you're worth $2M and you don't have a revocable trust and you don't have a credit shelter trust then...........
I don't care. Work on someone else. From here on out LTCSHOP I will not address any comments you have directed to me. This is my last statement. Please leave my circumstances out of your equation.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:04 PM
 
29,809 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
I don't care. Work on someone else. From here on out LTCSHOP I will not address any comments you have directed to me. This is my last statement. Please leave my circumstances out of your equation.
I resemble that
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Old 10-03-2017, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,885 posts, read 1,409,584 times
Reputation: 10118
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
They're not that much lower than the rest of the market.
Must be a different market in Pa. I went to NY life, AIG, Prudental, Genworth and AARP. and still haven't gotten a quote below 280.00

lol, Been having a lot of interesting conversations with insurance salesmen though.
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Old 10-03-2017, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,410 posts, read 9,157,087 times
Reputation: 13120
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
Instead of resorting to name-calling, why not offer a logical counterpoint?
well in my former line of work it was clear that very few people will need LTC insurance. My estate planning attorney wife agrees. So there is your logical counterpart.
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Old 10-03-2017, 05:57 PM
 
71,779 posts, read 71,896,917 times
Reputation: 49345
Well that is not what insurers are seeing which is why they had trouble pricing plans. There is far more usage of all types of care than ever imagined.
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