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Old 10-03-2017, 07:33 PM
 
3,079 posts, read 816,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Important? Or not the whole story? Earlier in this thread I posted this response to some data posted by Old Solider (where about 50% never needed any type of "care.")

I looked at the report quickly - including plowing thru the comments. Any idea what the 50% figure MEANS? Is it LTC where 2 or more activities of daily life cannot be performed (potentially initiating a policy claim). If so, how disabling really are these issues in terms of the care/cost profile? Or is it where a senior cannot manage their daily life without some sort of more minor (albeit vital, order in food, prepare a meal) supplemental assistance?

The distinction has enormous implications for the cost/care profile.
Edited - Plus, I should add that I would NEVER buy a policy that cost that much without making every attempt to ensure (hey, a pun) that it would meet MY projected costs, plans. Not an overall AVERAGE applying to typical profiles. Here, the details are incredibly important.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,843,254 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
jsut curious. did you own term life insurance when you were in your 30's?
Yes and had a policy for my wife as well. I learned from insurance company how to sell insurance. I had passed a broker's exam to get a license which I never used. We do not carry a term life insurance policy at this time. We found the expense prohibitive and unproductive. I have no income that I need to protect for my wife using insurance nor does she have income to protect for me. Really the term policy was by our math enough to pay off the house providing a net gain of mortgage payments. With no mortgage we need not protect it. Hence our same feeling for LTCi. It falls in the same block. We are independent and will remain that way.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:01 PM
 
3,079 posts, read 816,938 times
Reputation: 1709
One other thought before I wander off. Earlier, mathjak wrote that one of the reasons LTCi prices increased so much is that utilization rates rose higher than insurers anticipated. Care previously provided by families was now instead provided under an insurance payout. Makes sense. No doubt he's right.

BUT - and this is my objection. My potential care provider (at a minimal level, here) is not an elderly spouse but a kid who wants to do it AND whom I'll pay. No taking advantage here. The current condo is well-designed and in an ideal setting for a little-old-lady home in a county where there are superb services. We even have an ALF offering respite services down the block. More little-old lady friends!

I don't NEED to initiate a relatively early-stage claim but am, in essence, now paying a relatively higher-premium for those in the insurance pool whose options don't match mine.

Plus, I get it. Once you have the insurance it's that much EASIER to want to utilize it say for an ALF. Initiating a claim stops payments plus reduces the fear that an individual will die before collecting.

So what does that MEAN to me? Like many who will be elderly, I'm not crazy about the idea of a "stranger" sitting around the house bored because actual care needs don't fill the minimum time period. Nor do I have any interest in a ALF.

If life circumstances change to where redirection to a local, communal care setting seems in order ... I'd opt for a CCRC. Timing is important here, no doubt for again there's a dice-rolling that an illness won't preclude that option. But if I'm doing any kind of communal care I'd far prefer that setting to an ALF then relocate to a SNF route.

There's a wonderful one near us that surprising affordable - with a 10 YEAR waiting list (for a larger unit, I'd opt for a cheaper 1 BDR). I may well get myself on that waiting list - just as a backup.

Sure there's a role for LTCi in a CCRC, but it's hardly mandated. Again given all I've written, it's certainly simpler for me to leave it out of the CCRC option.
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:11 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,100 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Yes and had a policy for my wife as well. I learned from insurance company how to sell insurance. I had passed a broker's exam to get a license which I never used. We do not carry a term life insurance policy at this time. We found the expense prohibitive and unproductive. I have no income that I need to protect for my wife using insurance nor does she have income to protect for me. Really the term policy was by our math enough to pay off the house providing a net gain of mortgage payments. With no mortgage we need not protect it. Hence our same feeling for LTCi. It falls in the same block. We are independent and will remain that way.

....and the probability of you dying during the term was?
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:13 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,100 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
One other thought before I wander off. Earlier, mathjak wrote that one of the reasons LTCi prices increased so much is that utilization rates rose higher than insurers anticipated. Care previously provided by families was now instead provided under an insurance payout. Makes sense. No doubt he's right.

BUT - and this is my objection. My potential care provider (at a minimal level, here) is not an elderly spouse but a kid who wants to do it AND whom I'll pay. No taking advantage here. The current condo is well-designed and in an ideal setting for a little-old-lady home in a county where there are superb services. We even have an ALF offering respite services down the block. More little-old lady friends!

I don't NEED to initiate a relatively early-stage claim but am, in essence, now paying a relatively higher-premium for those in the insurance pool whose options don't match mine.

Plus, I get it. Once you have the insurance it's that much EASIER to want to utilize it say for an ALF. Initiating a claim stops payments plus reduces the fear that an individual will die before collecting.

So what does that MEAN to me? Like many who will be elderly, I'm not crazy about the idea of a "stranger" sitting around the house bored because actual care needs don't fill the minimum time period. Nor do I have any interest in a ALF.

If life circumstances change to where redirection to a local, communal care setting seems in order ... I'd opt for a CCRC. Timing is important here, no doubt for again there's a dice-rolling that an illness won't preclude that option. But if I'm doing any kind of communal care I'd far prefer that setting to an ALF then relocate to a SNF route.

There's a wonderful one near us that surprising affordable - with a 10 YEAR waiting list (for a larger unit, I'd opt for a cheaper 1 BDR). I may well get myself on that waiting list - just as a backup.

Sure there's a role for LTCi in a CCRC, but it's hardly mandated. Again given all I've written, it's certainly simpler for me to leave it out of the CCRC option.

...and long-term care insurance does not make sense because?

Last edited by LTCShop; 10-03-2017 at 10:23 PM..
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:38 PM
 
3,079 posts, read 816,938 times
Reputation: 1709
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
Even Nadia Comaneci was not this good at gymnastics.
Well, you asked.

It's fair to say that my potential use profile may differ enough from the norm that it's best discussed with an agent and leave it at that. No ONE product is right for EVERYONE.

Like I said, I initially did not respond to your question not wanting to get into a long drawn out discussion.

But then, I figured - what the heck. Maybe I'd get some input that the average agent might not offer. In the quick googles, I wandered onto one sale board containing statements like - LTC is such a complicated product that the writing agent didn't know how best to advise their customers.

No one should buy a product this expensive without having every one of their questions answered.

Last night, I ran a quick projection of my future RMDs - and was amazed at how high they'd be even though I'd funneled most equities into taxable accounts. It *would* be easy enough to use part for a LTCi premium with cash reserves covering me until age 70.

I'll get some quotes prior to consulting with the financial advisors.

But any decision will be based on all options, each of which will also be pre-researched for practical functionality and costed out.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:11 AM
 
10,812 posts, read 8,056,502 times
Reputation: 17010
LTCI, like every consumer product, is not a must-have commodity.

I've posted several times that DH & I have personal experience with 1) My mom, who had LTCI and spent her last several months in an ALF 2) DH's aunt and uncle, who didn't have LTCI and spend the last few years of their lives in an ALF 3) My aunt who didn't have LTCI and spent her last year in an SNF, and 3) DH's mom who doesn't have LTCI and has spent the last several years in an ALF and is now in an SNF.

All of these were low-middle income earners, with modest/average assets. There's not a single case where having LTCI would have made a positive difference in the care they received. In a couple of cases, having LTCI would have made a negligible differences in the amount their heirs would have received.

That said, there are certainly circumstances in which LTCI might make a difference and therefore is worth considering. DH and I researched it and considered it long and carefully, the negatives were just too much for us. YMMV.

Last edited by biscuitmom; 10-04-2017 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:29 AM
 
71,490 posts, read 71,652,652 times
Reputation: 49069
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
It's really not that complicated. Long-term care insurance improves the odds of preserving your estate for your daughter. It's that simple.

P.S. Don't waste your time seeing a "financial advisor" unless the advisor is a fee-only financial planner.
my own opinion is the fee only guys i looked in to sucked . they were all so far behind the times in retirement planning .

i got the feeling they were fee only because they lacked the training ,certification and credentials to get involved with other products or they would not be fee only .

they had no clue about the new strategies that are out that use more comprehensive vehicles and not just stocks and bonds .

best guy i found was commissioned and i ended up buying our ltc policy from him
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:39 AM
 
71,490 posts, read 71,652,652 times
Reputation: 49069
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
One other thought before I wander off. Earlier, mathjak wrote that one of the reasons LTCi prices increased so much is that utilization rates rose higher than insurers anticipated. Care previously provided by families was now instead provided under an insurance payout. Makes sense. No doubt he's right.

BUT - and this is my objection. My potential care provider (at a minimal level, here) is not an elderly spouse but a kid who wants to do it AND whom I'll pay. No taking advantage here. The current condo is well-designed and in an ideal setting for a little-old-lady home in a county where there are superb services. We even have an ALF offering respite services down the block. More little-old lady friends!

I don't NEED to initiate a relatively early-stage claim but am, in essence, now paying a relatively higher-premium for those in the insurance pool whose options don't match mine.

Plus, I get it. Once you have the insurance it's that much EASIER to want to utilize it say for an ALF. Initiating a claim stops payments plus reduces the fear that an individual will die before collecting.

So what does that MEAN to me? Like many who will be elderly, I'm not crazy about the idea of a "stranger" sitting around the house bored because actual care needs don't fill the minimum time period. Nor do I have any interest in a ALF.

If life circumstances change to where redirection to a local, communal care setting seems in order ... I'd opt for a CCRC. Timing is important here, no doubt for again there's a dice-rolling that an illness won't preclude that option. But if I'm doing any kind of communal care I'd far prefer that setting to an ALF then relocate to a SNF route.

There's a wonderful one near us that surprising affordable - with a 10 YEAR waiting list (for a larger unit, I'd opt for a cheaper 1 BDR). I may well get myself on that waiting list - just as a backup.

Sure there's a role for LTCi in a CCRC, but it's hardly mandated. Again given all I've written, it's certainly simpler for me to leave it out of the CCRC option.
we hope to never need ours but we make the insurances we feel we need the base of our investment pyramid . it mitigates the damages to the investments above it using just a small part of the gains to protect itself . not everything gets mitigated , only the things where if it happens to us it can be devastating to one of us .

we felt we would have paid in over decades in our premiums what amounts to 1 years time in a snf at that time once we reach the sweet spot for ltc and to have all those perks once the insurance runs out well worth every penny .

that is our plan and thinking , yours will be different
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,843,254 times
Reputation: 6377
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
...and long-term care insurance does not make sense because?
Are you kidding me? You are something else. I don't blame you for trying. I think that some people do need LTCi. It is a lot like the pucker factor of investing in equities.

Earlier you said I put out erroneous information relative to LTCi. You haven't commented on the post about the probability of using or needing long term care. It was obviously factual and the reason you are zeroing in on me. You think that because my wife and I are prime targets for a sale that you will use our circumstances in order to prove your point. But are flummoxed because I can see through your intent and know that as in most things that there is more than one way to accomplish almost anything.

You can and should stop trying to prove your point to me. I also think some of your antics is having a detrimental effect on others here. People that could actually use LTCi. There are truly people that could use LTCi if nothing more than peace of mind. Try not to over do it with me.

To others in here thinking on purchasing LTCi please consider it. It is good if you find the right policy. from a good insurer. The policy will payout should you require that care. If you can qualify for the policy and have the resources and feel the need it will help you sleep better at night.

But as you are considering LTCi you should also look at your own resources to see if there are better options. I have said there are other options. mj has expressed them as well, but deciding that in his circumstances a partnership program available in very few states at the moment worked best for him and his wife. There are others here that have LTCi as well.

On the flip side there are folks like me that have looked at our income and expenditures. Then matched it up with our assets and decided that we are better served saving the $100k we would spend over the next 20 years providing that safety net and betting that we will be one of the 70% that will spend less than 100k on long term care type of services. We are frugal in that most times we pay cash for cars and know that if you pay cash for care you can negotiate costs and terms. If on the worse case we need more it is our choice and we will spend down our assets like good people. If it runs out well I would not want to live without DW and she feels the same about me.

My last point here to anyone looking at LTCi for themselves, my whole entire argument is that you need a plan. If that plan includes or doesn't include LTCi the most important thing is to have a plan. If it don't work or it does you do the best for yourself. Look long and hard at what your plan is for your assets and your income in retirement. Look at all the options and think outside the box as well. Run through the scenarios and throw in what ifs. Read what other people do. then make your decision. I wish all of you well including LTCSHOP.
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