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Old 10-04-2017, 06:25 AM
 
11,159 posts, read 8,567,464 times
Reputation: 28161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
And it is. No one here is saying you should not buy it including me. My argument in this thread all came about when someone asked where someone could get an investment that provides $5,000.00 a month and I explained in simple math that a nest egg of $500,000.00 not in used for living expenses or even discretionary spending could be put in a bank account earning virtually 0% interest would be able to be used for 8 years 4 months providing $5,000.00 monthly. Then it was pointed out that maybe there might be cost of living increases so I then provided the same situation of $500k in the same location with a 4% increase would provide somewhere over 6 years of that same income. This is money that is set aside only for long term care.


While someone is well intentioned they don't understand any plan that doesn't include LTCi. I and my wife and obviously several here as well have decided that we will self insure. We understand the risk but given the statistics provided by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners we find that with just under 75% expected to have LTC costs under $100k. Please see the information below. It is in my opinion to have a plan. If that plan includes LTCi that is what it needs. If a person or couple decides that they would rather self insure then it should be left to them to decide what is best for them.
Self insuring is a valid choice as long as it's not a back door attempt to avoid paying for coverage with the intent of hiding your assets in order to get Medicaid.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:18 AM
 
71,806 posts, read 71,896,917 times
Reputation: 49359
you mean it is okay in your book , not in what is legal and allowed which says other wise . there is no hiding of assets . it is either a legal move using the tools and laws left in place for the purpose of being used or it isn't .

judging something with your moral view does not make it okay or not okay for others .
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:11 AM
 
11,159 posts, read 8,567,464 times
Reputation: 28161
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you mean it is okay in your book , not in what is legal and allowed which says other wise . there is no hiding of assets . it is either a legal move using the tools and laws left in place for the purpose of being used or it isn't .

judging something with your moral view does not make it okay or not okay for others .
I live in the real world. People are free to do whatever they wish.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:17 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,426 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Are you kidding me? You are something else. I don't blame you for trying. I think that some people do need LTCi. It is a lot like the pucker factor of investing in equities.

Earlier you said I put out erroneous information relative to LTCi. You haven't commented on the post about the probability of using or needing long term care. It was obviously factual and the reason you are zeroing in on me. You think that because my wife and I are prime targets for a sale that you will use our circumstances in order to prove your point. But are flummoxed because I can see through your intent and know that as in most things that there is more than one way to accomplish almost anything.

You can and should stop trying to prove your point to me. I also think some of your antics is having a detrimental effect on others here. People that could actually use LTCi. There are truly people that could use LTCi if nothing more than peace of mind. Try not to over do it with me.

To others in here thinking on purchasing LTCi please consider it. It is good if you find the right policy. from a good insurer. The policy will payout should you require that care. If you can qualify for the policy and have the resources and feel the need it will help you sleep better at night.

But as you are considering LTCi you should also look at your own resources to see if there are better options. I have said there are other options. mj has expressed them as well, but deciding that in his circumstances a partnership program available in very few states at the moment worked best for him and his wife. There are others here that have LTCi as well.

On the flip side there are folks like me that have looked at our income and expenditures. Then matched it up with our assets and decided that we are better served saving the $100k we would spend over the next 20 years providing that safety net and betting that we will be one of the 70% that will spend less than 100k on long term care type of services. We are frugal in that most times we pay cash for cars and know that if you pay cash for care you can negotiate costs and terms. If on the worse case we need more it is our choice and we will spend down our assets like good people. If it runs out well I would not want to live without DW and she feels the same about me.

My last point here to anyone looking at LTCi for themselves, my whole entire argument is that you need a plan. If that plan includes or doesn't include LTCi the most important thing is to have a plan. If it don't work or it does you do the best for yourself. Look long and hard at what your plan is for your assets and your income in retirement. Look at all the options and think outside the box as well. Run through the scenarios and throw in what ifs. Read what other people do. then make your decision. I wish all of you well including LTCSHOP.

You skipped over the most important question:

....and when you purchased your term life insurance when you were in your 30's, the probability of you dying during the term was what?
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,856,396 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
You skipped over the most important question:

....and when you purchased your term life insurance when you were in your 30's, the probability of you dying during the term was what?
Higher than your chances because I was a soldier. Your point means nothing. It is completely stupid to pick on me. You lose respect you gained by providing good information. Try to regain your senses.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:12 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,426 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
Higher than your chances because I was a soldier. Your point means nothing. It is completely stupid to pick on me. You lose respect you gained by providing good information. Try to regain your senses.

Do you have to resort to name-calling? I haven't lost my senses. I'm not picking on you. My points are valid. But instead of logically arguing against each point I make you go off on some tangent. When all else fails you try to belittle me.

When you posted that the odds of one person having AT LEAST $250,000 of long-term care expenses was "only" 15.2%, I asked a very simple question:

"when you and your wife purchased your term life insurance when you were in your 30's, the probability of one of you dying during the term was what?"

The statistics of a 30-year old woman dying are less than one-tenth of one percent. Yet, it WAS the right decision to buy term life insurance for your wife because if she did die prematurely the consequences would have been horrific. That was the right decision.

What's shocking to me is that you think 15.2% is low. I'm shocked it's that high.
That means a couple has a 30.4% chance of incurring at least $250,000 of long-term care expenses.

I know you can't answer my questions. But, if you do reply, can you stop the name-calling. Can't we just debate each point without you trying to belittle me?
.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,856,396 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
Do you have to resort to name-calling? I haven't lost my senses. I'm not picking on you. My points are valid. But instead of logically arguing against each point I make you go off on some tangent. When all else fails you try to belittle me.

When you posted that the odds of one person having AT LEAST $250,000 of long-term care expenses was "only" 15.2%, I asked a very simple question:

"when you and your wife purchased your term life insurance when you were in your 30's, the probability of one of you dying during the term was what?"

The statistics of a 30-year old woman dying are less than one-tenth of one percent. Yet, it WAS the right decision to buy term life insurance for your wife because if she did die prematurely the consequences would have been horrific. That was the right decision.

What's shocking to me is that you think 15.2% is low. I'm shocked it's that high.
That means a couple has a 30.4% chance of incurring at least $250,000 of long-term care expenses.

I know you can't answer my questions. But, if you do reply, can you stop the name-calling. Can't we just debate each point without you trying to belittle me?
.


No name calling cause I looked for a name I called you. Second your points are logical. I never said they weren't. I just said they were not for us. Is that so hard to understand. So to answer your question about what were my chances of dying or my wife dying at 30. They were quite low. But we still insured ourselves because it was important then.

So we have debated and I told you that we made our decision. Your argument has been pointed to try to convince me that I am wrong in not going for LTCi. That is your opinion and you are entitled to that as I am entitled to mine. Thank you very much.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:27 PM
 
29,815 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11735
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
No name calling cause I looked for a name I called you. Second your points are logical. I never said they weren't. I just said they were not for us. Is that so hard to understand. So to answer your question about what were my chances of dying or my wife dying at 30. They were quite low. But we still insured ourselves because it was important then.

So we have debated and I told you that we made our decision. Your argument has been pointed to try to convince me that I am wrong in not going for LTCi. That is your opinion and you are entitled to that as I am entitled to mine. Thank you very much.
I thought you were ignoring?
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:27 PM
 
3,100 posts, read 827,905 times
Reputation: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCShop View Post
...and long-term care insurance does not make sense because?
I think question was directed towards my comment that LTCi might not mesh well with a CCRC. No doubt, it depends on the particular CCRC given the variety of communities. But for the model CCRC in our area that I previously expressed interested in:

Most entering a CCRC opt for the Standard Plan - continuum of care at a set fee, with adjustments only for inflation not increased care level.

How this CCRC handles the LTCi is to discount the entry fee, charge the normal maintenance fee while in Independent Living. But then once care needs accelerate to to Assisted Living, the facility covers your first 90 days then you switch to private pay reimbursed by the LTCi policy.

One of the pluses of this facilities is that assisted living care is provided in the same apartment that you contracted for under independent living. It also contains a memory unit, SNF, and hospice care.

For me, given the cost of the LTCi and limited time coverage, this is not cost-effective, and defeats the purpose of a CCRC. I want the tail-end RISK covered.

Another CCRC (different state) seemed to keep the maintenance fee the same across care levels but charged a "lifetime care fee" of $70,000 for those who did not have LTCi (policy type not specified). This I would be fine with since I would now be paying a set dollar amount to cover risk, but it's not the facility in my area.

Instead of asking those of us who express concerns to defend our decisions - comparing it to life insurance and car insurance and the like, it would be helpful if you provide policy options or alternate information. I'm just googling trying to identify pros and cons to have a full set of questions prepared for any conversations with an agent.

I'm open to purchasing LTCi if it appears to make sense for me.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:29 PM
 
29,815 posts, read 34,900,894 times
Reputation: 11735
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
I don't care. Work on someone else. From here on out LTCSHOP I will not address any comments you have directed to me. This is my last statement. Please leave my circumstances out of your equation.
Interesting!
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