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Old 10-04-2017, 02:32 PM
 
29,775 posts, read 34,860,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
I think question was directed towards my comment that LTCi might not mesh well with a CCRC. No doubt, it depends on the particular CCRC given the variety of communities. But for the model CCRC in our area that I previously expressed interested in:

Most entering a CCRC opt for the Standard Plan - continuum of care at a set fee, with adjustments only for inflation not increased care level.

How this CCRC handles the LTCi is to discount the entry fee, charge the normal maintenance fee while in Independent Living. But then once care needs accelerate to to Assisted Living, the facility covers your first 90 days then you switch to private pay reimbursed by the LTCi policy.

One of the pluses of this facilities is that assisted living care is provided in the same apartment that you contracted for under independent living. It also contains a memory unit, SNF, and hospice care.

For me, given the cost of the LTCi and limited time coverage, this is not cost-effective, and defeats the purpose of a CCRC. I want the tail-end RISK covered.

Another CCRC (different state) seemed to keep the maintenance fee the same across care levels but charged a "lifetime care fee" of $70,000 for those who did not have LTCi (policy type not specified). This I would be fine with since I would now be paying a set dollar amount to cover risk, but it's not the facility in my area.

Instead of asking those of us who express concerns to defend our decisions - comparing it to life insurance and car insurance and the like, it would be helpful if you provide policy options or alternate information. I'm just googling trying to identify pros and cons to have a full set of questions prepared for any conversations with an agent.

I'm open to purchasing LTCi if it appears to make sense for me.
One of the new CCRC models is a monthly cost for each level with no buy in. Part of that is because of folks having their own LTCi. The place we affiliated (for possible future use) is like that. Another also new facility which is very high end and expensive has a buy in fee with a 53k per person long term care fee along with the buy in. In this case your LTCi has minimal value. The burn is if you enter, surrender your LTCi and decide you don't like it, than ooops you have no coverage.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:51 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 819,720 times
Reputation: 1729
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
we hope to never need ours but we make the insurances we feel we need the base of our investment pyramid . it mitigates the damages to the investments above it using just a small part of the gains to protect itself . not everything gets mitigated , only the things where if it happens to us it can be devastating to one of us .

we felt we would have paid in over decades in our premiums what amounts to 1 years time in a snf at that time once we reach the sweet spot for ltc and to have all those perks once the insurance runs out well worth every penny .

that is our plan and thinking , yours will be different
As a resident of NY state, you've basically purchased unlimited LTCi with full asset protection even though your policy is in effect for only 3 years. That's a good deal but not one available to me.

For me, those premiums would buy me another 2 years in the SNF AFTER I already paid for one year that I might never need. The tail end risk would remain uncovered with unknown added risk from possible increases in premiums and insurance company instability. Why would this be a good deal for ME?

What is my tail end risk? Per the Christine Benz statistics:

Quote:
7%: Probability of needing more than five years in a nursing home, women.
This statistic: 52.3%: The expected percentage of people turning 65 who will have a long-term care need during their lifetimes DOES appear to the type of care that many seniors need that does NOT necessarily trigger a LTC policy claim.

She appears to use the term "high long-term care need" to address the type of care that I'm concerned about covering (that which would require SNF care). Plus, even there an unknown amount of the care could be provided in a home-care setting for me prior to reaching the 24-7 intensive care level that would mandate a SNF, further cutting into the 7%.

Quote:
6.3 million: The number of Americans who have a high long-term care need because they need help with two or more activities of daily living or are experiencing cognitive decline.
15 million: The number of Americans expected to have a high long-term care need by 2050.
My inclination that the best way of handling the 7 percent risk is to proceed with the desired goal of purchasing a second home or at least establishing a residence out of the US (where viable care options are much less expensive). If that proves less workable, then turn to the CCRC. The first option is much less expensive, the other high-cost care. But there I'd at least be paying for what I know that I would receive - after due diligence of the facilities etc. With no tail-end risk.

For reasons I've discussed earlier, I'm not concerned about pre-SNF costs. I'd like to leave some money for my daughter (along with the condo), but it does not have to be the entire estate.

If this does not making sense ... I'm open to criticism.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:03 PM
 
71,515 posts, read 71,694,121 times
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we bought ours to stay out of a nursing home . we want to have a choice in having full time in home care or assisted living if needed . last thing we want is to be sent away to a home .
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:05 PM
 
3,083 posts, read 819,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
One of the new CCRC models is a monthly cost for each level with no buy in. Part of that is because of folks having their own LTCi. The place we affiliated (for possible future use) is like that. Another also new facility which is very high end and expensive has a buy in fee with a 53k per person long term care fee along with the buy in. In this case your LTCi has minimal value. The burn is if you enter, surrender your LTCi and decide you don't like it, than ooops you have no coverage.
Thanks.

My research is tentative, mainly to weigh it against/with LTCi. Plus, it's not a lifestyle that I'd normally opt for BUT I may well come to feel differently over time AND if it covers the tail-end risk in a setting that provides optimal care that would reduce stress on my daughter it might be well worth the cost.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:11 PM
 
216 posts, read 114,244 times
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If you are looking for a way to cover a long tail claim look at the asset based plans available. They offer guaranteed premiums and guaranteed benefits and pay lifetime claims.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:13 PM
 
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the problem with statistics is they missed lots of people being cared for by family that should not have been .

usually one sibling steps up to the plate and all the others step back . that family took a financial hit ,a social hit and possibly long term career hits .

that has blown more families apart and if a spouse is involved , the why are we giving up everything and your brothers and sisters do nothing starts and divorce happens .

that was all a generation ago too when fewer women worked outside the home and had careers .

so all of those folks were never counted
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:14 PM
 
71,515 posts, read 71,694,121 times
Reputation: 49088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
If you are looking for a way to cover a long tail claim look at the asset based plans available. They offer guaranteed premiums and guaranteed benefits and pay lifetime claims.
life time claims is almost a ghost . we found none in our area . most are 3-5 years and no premium levels guaranteed . let us know what state and where you found something that offers this .
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:29 PM
 
216 posts, read 114,244 times
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Only one traditional company offers lifetime and the premiums are off the chart. The plan that offers lifetime ltc offers it either with an annuity or a life policy. Not available in New York. For those that can afford to sel fund a couple years of claims this is a product one should carefully review.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:30 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
life time claims is almost a ghost . we found none in our area . most are 3-5 years and no premium levels guaranteed . let us know what state and where you found something that offers this .
That particular policy is available in every state except NY.
It's usually not a great deal for a single person, but it's an excellent deal for most married couples.
It's a hybrid but I don't recommend the "single premium" option.
You're much better off doing a lifepay (since the premiums can never go up).


There are other policies that offer very rich "shared benefits" for spouses/partners. You can buy as much as 16 years of shared benefits where one spouse being able to use up to 15 of the 16 years. (That policy is available in NY). Another company (not in NY) offers 15 years of shared benefits. And most companies offer 10 years of shared benefits.

My wife and I have 10 years of shared benefits. That's long tail enough for me.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:31 PM
 
71,515 posts, read 71,694,121 times
Reputation: 49088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Only one traditional company offers lifetime and the premiums are off the chart. The plan that offers lifetime ltc offers it either with an annuity or a life policy. Not available in New York. For those that can afford to sel fund a couple years of claims this is a product one should carefully review.
i am not a fan of hybrid policies , not something i would ever do personally if i wanted coverage .

we are satisfied with our ny partnership plan . hopefully we will not need it .
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