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Old 10-04-2017, 03:32 PM
 
29,784 posts, read 34,880,403 times
Reputation: 11710

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
life time claims is almost a ghost . we found none in our area . most are 3-5 years and no premium levels guaranteed . let us know what state and where you found something that offers this .
We have lifetime claims but we purchased years ago through a professional association
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:33 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintail07 View Post
Only one traditional company offers lifetime and the premiums are off the chart. The plan that offers lifetime ltc offers it either with an annuity or a life policy. Not available in New York. For those that can afford to sel fund a couple years of claims this is a product one should carefully review.

National Guardian's policy is competitive with the 15 years of shared benefits, rather than the lifetime/unlimited. And the 10-year pay option is A VERY GOOD value, especially if a business is buying the policy for an owner or key employee.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:37 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,299 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i am not a fan of hybrid policies , not something i would ever do personally if i wanted coverage .

we are satisfied with our ny partnership plan . hopefully we will not need it .

The hybrids that are single-premium are terrible. The opportunity cost of those products is higher than the premium for a real long-term care policy.

The only time the single-premium hybrids make sense is if someone has a substantial amount of gains built up within a life policy and they do a 1035 exchange to avoid paying tax on the cash value.

pintail is talking about a hybrid policy that has guaranteed level premiums that are payable for life, just like a traditional LTCi policy.

Last edited by LTCShop; 10-04-2017 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:07 PM
 
216 posts, read 114,462 times
Reputation: 168
Depends on what one uses as the lost opportunity cost. Your statement is incorrect if one assumes a cd rate of return. Plus, rates are not guaranteed. Maybe terrible in your opinion, but others may disagree, that's what makes America great different opinions, don't you agree?
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:29 PM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
Reputation: 49268
LTC'S statement is correct but for other reasons . . michael kitces had looked at the hybrids too .


Executive Summary
As traditional long-term care (LTC) insurance becomes more and more expensive, and interest rates remain at ultra-low levels, planners and their clients have become increasingly interested in so-called “Hybrid LTC” policies that match together a life insurance or annuity policy with LTC coverage, especially with a more favorable set of tax rules that took effect in 2010. For many, though, the primary appeal of hybrid policies is the simple fact that, unlike their traditional LTC insurance brethren, the premiums really are guaranteed and cannot be increased in the future. Given some of the extraordinarily large premium increases that traditional LTC coverage has experienced in recent years – especially for some of the early policies issued in the 1990s and early 2000s – a cost guarantee is remarkably reassuring.

Yet the reality is that the guarantee of LTC premiums in a hybrid policy may be entirely offset by the fact that the insurance company controls the cash value, and is under no obligation to pay a going rate of return, especially if interest rates rise. In other words, it doesn’t really matter that the insurance company can’t increase the premiums on the policy by $4,000/year, when the company can simply under-pay on the interest rate by $4,000/year to accomplish the same result! And while the cash value of a hybrid LTC policy generally does remain liquid, taking a withdrawal to reinvest to get better, higher rates would entail surrendering the policy and forfeiting the LTC coverage! In fact, for some types of hybrid LTC policies, the arrangement contractually provides no rate of return to the client at all, and is essentially the equivalent of the client selling a call option on interest rates to the insurance company, where the more rates rise the greater the company wins at the expense of the client!




https://www.kitces.com/blog/is-the-l...just-a-mirage/
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:41 PM
 
216 posts, read 114,462 times
Reputation: 168
His argument against is totally irrelevant. Folks mainly buy this product for the guarantees. Fluctuating interest rates and crediting methods are rarely part of the decision making.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:42 PM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
Reputation: 49268
they can buy it but that does not mean it is a good product . two separate issues .
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:04 PM
 
216 posts, read 114,462 times
Reputation: 168
What do you see as "bad product'? What would you say are the bad parts? Rates can never be changed, benefits can never be changes except to increase/
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:05 PM
 
71,700 posts, read 71,801,099 times
Reputation: 49268
read what kitces said about it . it is right there .
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:05 PM
 
256 posts, read 477,570 times
Reputation: 565
There's so much wisdom on this thread-----I've been reading little by little to "catch up". Years ago my hubs and I bought the Federal LTC insurance. The premiums have soared but I have unlimited time benefit after the waiting period. They don't even offer the unlimited option anymore. I think it's 5 years max.
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