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Old 08-26-2017, 10:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Yes, I agree. I usually ignore these types of comments. I've heard them all my life enough to know it says a lot more about the person speaking than the person being spoken to.
Haven't all of us CFs heard this all the time!
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:18 PM
 
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Mod cut: Quoted post deleted.

I worked in an AIDS hospice for two years (residential facility, not home). A lot of people had been disowned by family for being gay or on drugs or whatever. I think, as they sank towards death and died, that they withdrew more into themselves and semi-conscious or unconscious. I feel that people, in that state, cut to the chase, and it's just a soul connection. I've known of people who died with the housekeeper sitting with them and it seemed quite personal. I mean, the personality recedes and you're left with the soul.

At least that's the way I see it. I don't care if I die alone, I've lived alone with some visiting to other souls and personalities. I am confused by this sense that people have that it is somehow horrible to die alone. Maybe it's more so for people who are scared of dying/"what's next" or feel they are facing eternity or some other personality feeling. I personally think our personalities are gone at that time and we are pure energy and it's a way of being that we cannot possibly understand from "here."

Last edited by PJSaturn; 08-29-2017 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Being child-free, bestows on one tremendous freedoms, but also a feeling of rootlessness and drift. If I have no dependents, why should I remain responsible? Whatís to keep me in-line, productive, motivated, conscientious?
Being in-line and motivated is its own reward. If one doesn't wish to have the freedom, then have at it- parenthood! But as others have pointed out, it doesn't always keep people in line. The phrase I think of more is "stuck," not motivated.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post

Being child-free, bestows on one tremendous freedoms, but also a feeling of rootlessness and drift. If I have no dependents, why should I remain responsible? Whatís to keep me in-line, productive, motivated, conscientious?
Are you serious? There are many, many reasons that people stay responsible, productive, etc.

You have basically said that the only reason to live a full and responsible life is to make and take care of more genetic variants of yourself. An extremely narrow view of the richness of life and all its trials and rewards. Considering biologic family more important than anybody or anything else is common and somewhat understandable, but it is a form of self-centeredness if you think about it. Not something to get smug over.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikabike View Post
You have basically said that the only reason to live a full and responsible life is to make and take care of more genetic variants of yourself. An extremely narrow view of the richness of life and all its trials and rewards. Considering biologic family more important than anybody or anything else is common and somewhat understandable, but it is a form of self-centeredness if you think about it. Not something to get smug over.
I don't think ^^^ is smug. As I remember, he is childfree. Unfortunate if he cannot come up with some other reason to be productive/responsible, etc. Perhaps he is stuck in his own way, even without children or dependents.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:41 AM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,559 posts, read 3,665,665 times
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It's a myth that everyone who didn't have children is rich. Many childfree couples are struggling financially. Long term care is very expensive, around 100,000 a year for the cheapest nursing facility. Lots of people, with kids or not, are going to have difficulty swinging that.


Also, there are some fears about growing old with no younger relatives around. Check out the caregiving forum and calling themselves "elder orphans". Clearly, attaching a negative label to their situation means they don't feel it's all hunky dory. And the people in senior citizen's clubs aren't going to make huge sacrifices to care for their elderly friends. They might be of some comfort here and there, but when push comes to shove, they aren't blood relatives.
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Old 08-27-2017, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Arizona
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I am child free in my 60's but there is still time.
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:55 AM
 
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The operative idea, I think, is that after decades of scrupulous adherence to professional decorum, to the responsibility and self-restraint that we exercise as dutiful citizens, one comes to wonder, whether this is all justified, or if it’s some smarmy ruse. For parents, for spouses, for adults whose own parents are elderly, for siblings and so forth, the answer is moot, because we’re part of a web of filial responsibilities. Even in hyper-individualistic America, there’s a sense of doing work and saving money not merely for ourselves, but for our loved-ones, who might need our assistance, or who could offer assistance to us, not in a sense of reciprocal exchange, but just because we’re family. Lacking such filial connections, not only being child-free but having been an only-child, whose parents have passed on – well, in that case, comes the immersion in feeling of whether one’s very connection to society is phony and stilted. Thus the wide-eyed pondering, of what’s it all about.

It’s certainly true, that not all parents are responsible, and not all responsible people are parents. But you know those movies and cartoons, where the staid office-minion in starched white dress-shirt and awkward glasses gets insulted one too many times, and suddenly snaps, becoming violent and deranged? Well, two things, I think, preclude that in real-life. The first, when we’re young or semi-young, is the self-imposed responsibility of making our careers. This can last for decades, but eventually peters out. The second is family-connections, which also peter out, when those around us pass away, especially if there were not so many around us in the first place. What then holds us back? What prevents us from, I don’t know, joining some Tibetan monastery – just to give this an innocent and unassuming spin?

To be sure, I do not advocate having children as a scheme for keeping oneself responsible. That is idiotic on so many levels! Instead, my point is that the overwhelming majority of people don’t face with full enormity the “big questions” (at least not after age 16) because they are busy with quotidian distractions – chiefly, family and career. Remove those who, and with what constraints of orderliness are we left?
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:37 AM
 
2,952 posts, read 1,640,257 times
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We don't have children.

We aren't under the delusion people with kids will be taken care of. The opposite is more the truth.

You owe your children to raise them to be functional members of society. Then your job is done. Your children OWE you nothing. Ask any good mental health professional and they will tell you this.

Yes there are societies where children owe a debt to the parents till the day they die. Not functional.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:13 AM
 
Location: South Florida
195 posts, read 106,409 times
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My 86 year old mother has 6 children. She is still okay on her own, but for how much longer? I have told her that when she feels that she needs help she can move in with me so that she has someone looking after her 24/7. She says she won't do it because I am already taking care of my husband who suffers from Parkinson's and Lewy Body Dementia and she feels that I have enough on my plate. I think "What the hell... I'm home 24/7 as is, so it's not like she is going to disrupt my lifestyle!!!"

My point is, out of 6 kids only one is willing to look after her. Just because someone has children that doesn't mean that they will be better cared-for when they get older. Having kids is a crapshoot. You really don't know what kind of person you are going to ultimately wind up with no matter how you raise them. You have children because you want them. You don't have children because you don't want them. I really don't think that most young people decide to have children because they want someone to take care of them when they get old.
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