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Old 09-04-2017, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Southern Most New Jersey
1,105 posts, read 822,902 times
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If these pension funds are underfunded now just wait for the stock market to crash. Pension money should have gone into long term bonds not highly speculative stocks. But with unrealistic goals of high return they have used stocks for years. Worker contributions should have been much higher with lower end payouts. And no payouts until 65 years old.

Day of reckoning coming soon..
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:16 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,065,799 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBoy3 View Post
If these pension funds are underfunded now just wait for the stock market to crash. Pension money should have gone into long term bonds not highly speculative stocks. But with unrealistic goals of high return they have used stocks for years. Worker contributions should have been much higher with lower end payouts. And no payouts until 65 years old.

Day of reckoning coming soon..
That is a fairly general statement seeing that there are over 100 different plan with different terms. many plans the retirement age is 65.

And what does day of reckoning mean? Something like Detroit where the city almost had to sell assets to fund the plan?
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:34 AM
 
4,098 posts, read 7,801,201 times
Reputation: 5709
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBoy3 View Post
If these pension funds are underfunded now just wait for the stock market to crash. Pension money should have gone into long term bonds not highly speculative stocks. But with unrealistic goals of high return they have used stocks for years. Worker contributions should have been much higher with lower end payouts. And no payouts until 65 years old.

Day of reckoning coming soon..
They will do what have always done: raise your taxes to cover their butts.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:37 AM
 
4,098 posts, read 7,801,201 times
Reputation: 5709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Romano View Post
Have you tried to sort that last column from smallest to largest?

Are you willing to take a bullet or work in a jail or fight a fire in 100 degree weather or get a medical degree or two to get your paycheck and benefits? If one of those people come to your house to save you go ahead and tell them what you think...
I will tell them they are overpaid and they better do a good job. If they don't like that, they can leave and be replaced by hundreds of younger and hungrier people in a heartbeat.

Last edited by davidt1; 09-04-2017 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:41 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,065,799 times
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Let me ask a question- you do work for someone for 30 years. You agree to take current payment plus a percentage to be deferred later. You both agree to the terms.

Many years later the other party says we cannot pay you for financial reasons and they go bankrupt. During the bankruptcy you find out they make $35 million and have fixed costs of $14 million. With the other $21 million they do some good things and some bad things but nothing that they are required to do just things they want to do. You also find out that they have unencumbered assets worth $100 million. These assets are in forms of land, buildings and other physical assets.

Under that fact pattern do you agree to allow that person to lessen what they owe you or do you as a creditor push the bankruptcy trustee to liquidate assets and take current income to pay you?
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:50 AM
 
2,871 posts, read 1,013,856 times
Reputation: 3291
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
I will tell them they are overpaid and they better do a good job. If they don't like that, they can leave and be replaced by hundreds of younger and hungrier people in a heartbeat.
LOL sure you would tell them that as you are having a heart attack and you dial 911
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:58 AM
 
Location: New Oxford, PA
120 posts, read 59,265 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Oh really?

Have you ever worked Retail? In retail, you MIGHT get lucky to have your store closed ON Christmas day, or part there of, BUT, you are required to work up to the day before and definitely it's all employees on deck the day/ week after Christmas.
Thanks Giving? Maybe the same, BUT: you Will work the day and weekend after while some government employees are off. Now stores are vying for that TG dollar, so are open ON TG day.

Holidays in general, except those two, you ARE working on the holiday. Guaranteed.

Same for restaurants. People out shopping NEED to eat top.

Here's another thing , I'll bet you got breaks, paid or unpaid. Restaurants and hotels many don't get breaks, have to go to the bathroom quickly if you have "down Time", or go without until your shift is over. But you are, when even down time is at hand, on the job for anything that comes up. You do not get to tell people you won't wait on them because"I'm on break".

Retail? Physical jobs? Who do you think unloaded the trucks filled with that merchandise you buy with your fat govt job? Who do you think is required to "regularly lift 50#"? As cases can weigh that OR MORE. Who do you think is to do or how with a carry out for of you can't or don't feel like lifting it? Something like a household generator weighs 600-800#, lifted to your vehicle by only TWO employees.
Even "cash and carry "outlets have to unload, haul to display, unpack and stock the merchandise.

So physical requirements, little to no time off, working holidays, no breaks, little pay ( usually all minimum wage based, even management is not to far above minimum wage), little to no holidays off , little to no paid vacation, no pension or JOKE " matching funds" to a 401k ( try $0.03 per dollar up to the first 3% of your pay) IF you get a 401k., No weekends off. No " personal days" off with pay, NO PENSION. Nights and weekends are usually required.

Local state fed jobs all pay well above minimum, some have to work, like police DO have to work, and sometimes are all employees on deck, but vast majority get weekend off, holiday off, good paid vacation, personal days off to attend to personal things, good lunch breaks, PENSIONS. And the list goes on and on.

And we'd be OVER LOADED with government, NOT everyone can have a govt job or qualify for one.
The Air Force wouldn't take me, because I use an inhaler for asthma. I don't qualify for lots of government jobs for other reasons. Or haven't gotten hired for ones whose tests I can easily pass. And they don't tell me why.

Think about that the next time you go grocery shopping, retail shopping, home improvement shopping and eat out. That person behind the register, stocking the shelves, doing your carry out, waiting on you or cooking your food ISN'T making enough to even SAVE for retirement, let alone get a penny for pension, regardless of whether it's " exactly", " only 75%,", "only 48%" of their pay when they do retire. They don't even get a gold watch for years of service, and are subject to being fired at any time, for cause or without cause, get laud off or cut back during low season, and are often just as "overworked" as govt employees and teachers claim to be.

Everyone is aware that those retail jobs are out there. I worked in the Food Court and at Sears while in High School.

At 18, I was able to see the bigger picture. While a lot of my friends stayed behind at the Mall, I joined a construction union for better pay, benefits and an annuity.

At 21, I took a Civil Service test and began my Corrections career, knowing that even though I'd initially be taking a pay cut, I'd only have to work for 25 years, and then retire with a pension and full benefits.

Instead of complaining about what other people had, I made choices to better my situation so I could have those things.

By the way, I didn't receive a gold watch when I retired, but that's ok. I don't have to be anywhere at any specific time.
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:00 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,065,799 times
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Correction jobs are very difficult. I would never want to do that job.
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:34 AM
 
Location: New Oxford, PA
120 posts, read 59,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
Correction jobs are very difficult. I would never want to do that job.


Which is why prospective employees need to be enticed with benefits (good pay, healthcare, 25 (or 20) year retirement and pensions). No one would take any Civil Service job at minimum wage.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:59 AM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,361,982 times
Reputation: 20438
Like others, I took a pay cut to work for a company with benefits... including a pension.

It did not go as planned...

Due to mergers, acquisitions, numerous government mandates in the Healthcare segment... 90% of what I bargained for no longer exists... I have 26 years in.

Who would of thought Hospitals/Healthcare would be anything but solid... hard to offshore, ageing population, more people needing services... etc...

I am not alone and the point is one can do ALL the right things and take a pay cut and still come out on the short end when it comes to pensions and benefits.

One other thing to point out...

Public Safety went through a huge upheaval in my little corner of the country...

Let me illustrate among my friends...

One of my childhood friends was not sure what she wanted to do... on a lark she was at a job fair with her fiancee... she is African American Female... he is White Male...

They both tested for the Police Department and did well... she did have some problems with the obstacle course and was offered coaching and a retest.

The kicker is the department like many around here operate under a consent decree and one of the items is to make the department reflect the community... since there were few minority females her way was paved... special assistance, incentives, paid for and no cost academy.

Since he was a White Male... none of the above applied... as there were two many Males and Whites in the department so his path was to pay his own way through the academy...

It got very extreme as my little city of 380,000 was sending recruiting teams around the country looking for minority and female candidates while ignoring white male candidates living here...

So the refrain anyone can go out and get a government job certainly was not the case in my city or neighboring departments... it most definitely depends on gender and race.
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