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Old 09-04-2017, 09:09 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,165 posts, read 1,265,978 times
Reputation: 4456

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Oh really?

Have you ever worked Retail? In retail, you MIGHT get lucky to have your store closed ON Christmas day, or part there of, BUT, you are required to work up to the day before and definitely it's all employees on deck the day/ week after Christmas.
Thanks Giving? Maybe the same, BUT: you Will work the day and weekend after while some government employees are off. Now stores are vying for that TG dollar, so are open ON TG day.

Holidays in general, except those two, you ARE working on the holiday. Guaranteed.

Same for restaurants. People out shopping NEED to eat top.

Here's another thing , I'll bet you got breaks, paid or unpaid. Restaurants and hotels many don't get breaks, have to go to the bathroom quickly if you have "down Time", or go without until your shift is over. But you are, when even down time is at hand, on the job for anything that comes up. You do not get to tell people you won't wait on them because"I'm on break".

Retail? Physical jobs? Who do you think unloaded the trucks filled with that merchandise you buy with your fat govt job? Who do you think is required to "regularly lift 50#"? As cases can weigh that OR MORE. Who do you think is to do or how with a carry out for of you can't or don't feel like lifting it? Something like a household generator weighs 600-800#, lifted to your vehicle by only TWO employees.
Even "cash and carry "outlets have to unload, haul to display, unpack and stock the merchandise.

So physical requirements, little to no time off, working holidays, no breaks, little pay ( usually all minimum wage based, even management is not to far above minimum wage), little to no holidays off , little to no paid vacation, no pension or JOKE " matching funds" to a 401k ( try $0.03 per dollar up to the first 3% of your pay) IF you get a 401k., No weekends off. No " personal days" off with pay, NO PENSION. Nights and weekends are usually required.

Local state fed jobs all pay well above minimum, some have to work, like police DO have to work, and sometimes are all employees on deck, but vast majority get weekend off, holiday off, good paid vacation, personal days off to attend to personal things, good lunch breaks, PENSIONS. And the list goes on and on.

And we'd be OVER LOADED with government, NOT everyone can have a govt job or qualify for one.
The Air Force wouldn't take me, because I use an inhaler for asthma. I don't qualify for lots of government jobs for other reasons. Or haven't gotten hired for ones whose tests I can easily pass. And they don't tell me why.

Think about that the next time you go grocery shopping, retail shopping, home improvement shopping and eat out. That person behind the register, stocking the shelves, doing your carry out, waiting on you or cooking your food ISN'T making enough to even SAVE for retirement, let alone get a penny for pension, regardless of whether it's " exactly", " only 75%,", "only 48%" of their pay when they do retire. They don't even get a gold watch for years of service, and are subject to being fired at any time, for cause or without cause, get laud off or cut back during low season, and are often just as "overworked" as govt employees and teachers claim to be.

What, so everyone should be paid the same, or based on how physically difficult the job is? Anyone that makes a career selling retail, or loading boxes etc are the most easily replaced employees. Low paying jobs are low paying for a reason. Supply and demand. When there is a glut of teachers, they don't get hired and wages stagnate. When therenis shortage, there are enticements. This is not rocket science. There will always be haves and have nots, fairness and unfairness. Thats life. Adapt or suffer. It's so easy to judge others when not walking in their shoes. I doubt I would hire you either if you have that chip on your shoulder all the time. And I have never worked a government job in my life.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Upstate, NY
607 posts, read 261,071 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimegoat View Post
With a pension system, you get out of it what you put into it. I retired just under two years ago (NY State Tier 4). We were able to unlimitedly boost our pension amounts through working overtime. That has been changed in Tier 5 (only able to boost by 10% over base pay at time of retirement). and shortly thereafter Tier 6 (unable to boost).

Many of my coworkers didn't do overtime, and retired at 50% of their base pay, or did more than 25 years to increase their pension percentage by 2% per year, as long as they stayed until age 55. Knowing that I would reach 25 years on the job at age 46, I chose to work the overtime, and enjoy those extra 9 years of retirement.
Yes. There have also been other adjustments. Teachers in the latest tier must contribute their entire careers. As they reach milestones they must increase their contributions. They are also required to work longer, and pension factor penalties are more punitive. NY's retirement system funding is excellent, yet is still making adjustments to meet its obligations for future retirees. While not as good as it has been, it will still be good enough for people to desire a career within the state system, I think.

One other note; school districts and their contracts with teachers vary greatly from one place to another. I am a teacher and in a community less than one hour away a teacher with the exact same number of years in and education as I have makes close to $20k more than I do. Most often the difference reflects the wealth of the community, but there are remarkable differences in how we are compensated.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Mexico City (at the moment)
1,345 posts, read 469,657 times
Reputation: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Many of my public safety friends had no idea it would turn out this good...

Lifetime medical, 3% per year with retirement starting at age 50 and yes there are a lot that retired in their early 50's... with pension spiking they are just about equal wages and pension...

The beauty is it was all 100% taxpayer funded... not a penny employee contribution as the city of Oakland paid the full freight...

For those that retired earlier is is even sweeter... their pensions are forever tied to the pay today of the position you retired at... some really are nearly 3 times more than they earned 30-35 years ago...

As with most things... the truth is somewhere in the middle... and all it takes is actual numbers from the city of Oakland to see why it gives pause...

My uncle missed all the good things... he died as a deputy sheriff in the line of duty before they had things like survivor benefits, etc... and paid the ultimate price.

Maybe one of the pension wizzards can back into a number to equal what my friend recieves from the city of Oakland.

Retired at 52 making 30 years with sick and vacation and pension spike... pension is 180k per year plus lifetime medical...

Any idea what an individual would need to sock away to get this for life at age 52?
This is the kind of thing that gets private sector taxpaying peoples dander up! Granted, it is a California centric problem, but somebody in California needs to carry that burden (like you).

When you have city councils that are in lockstep with public service labor unions (all answering to the same political party of course), coupled with "pie-in-the-sky" future returns on potential investments and a kick the can down the road mentality, there is absolutely nobody looking out for the taxpayer. I realize public safety jobs are demanding, but sanity needs to prevail. Hopefully California (and Oakland) will see the light .
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Mexico City (at the moment)
1,345 posts, read 469,657 times
Reputation: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Like others, I took a pay cut to work for a company with benefits... including a pension.

It did not go as planned...

Due to mergers, acquisitions, numerous government mandates in the Healthcare segment... 90% of what I bargained for no longer exists... I have 26 years in.

Who would of thought Hospitals/Healthcare would be anything but solid... hard to offshore, ageing population, more people needing services... etc...

I am not alone and the point is one can do ALL the right things and take a pay cut and still come out on the short end when it comes to pensions and benefits.

One other thing to point out...

Public Safety went through a huge upheaval in my little corner of the country...

Let me illustrate among my friends...

One of my childhood friends was not sure what she wanted to do... on a lark she was at a job fair with her fiancee... she is African American Female... he is White Male...

They both tested for the Police Department and did well... she did have some problems with the obstacle course and was offered coaching and a retest.

The kicker is the department like many around here operate under a consent decree and one of the items is to make the department reflect the community... since there were few minority females her way was paved... special assistance, incentives, paid for and no cost academy.

Since he was a White Male... none of the above applied... as there were two many Males and Whites in the department so his path was to pay his own way through the academy...

It got very extreme as my little city of 380,000 was sending recruiting teams around the country looking for minority and female candidates while ignoring white male candidates living here...

So the refrain anyone can go out and get a government job certainly was not the case in my city or neighboring departments... it most definitely depends on gender and race.
Ahhhh.....,good old identity politics, another weight around the leg of a single political party when driving public policy. Drop the standards, offer unfair incentives to a chosen few, all for benefits that are fuzzy at best, and certianly lower perception of the qualifications of those the city does find that meet their defined criteria (which has nothing to do with ability).

NYC is going through this same song and dance right now concerning firefighters.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:19 PM
 
Location: New York
831 posts, read 653,672 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Oh really?

Have you ever worked Retail? In retail, you MIGHT get lucky to have your store closed ON Christmas day, or part there of, BUT, you are required to work up to the day before and definitely it's all employees on deck the day/ week after Christmas.
Thanks Giving? Maybe the same, BUT: you Will work the day and weekend after while some government employees are off. Now stores are vying for that TG dollar, so are open ON TG day.

Holidays in general, except those two, you ARE working on the holiday. Guaranteed.

Same for restaurants. People out shopping NEED to eat top.

Here's another thing , I'll bet you got breaks, paid or unpaid. Restaurants and hotels many don't get breaks, have to go to the bathroom quickly if you have "down Time", or go without until your shift is over. But you are, when even down time is at hand, on the job for anything that comes up. You do not get to tell people you won't wait on them because"I'm on break".

Retail? Physical jobs? Who do you think unloaded the trucks filled with that merchandise you buy with your fat govt job? Who do you think is required to "regularly lift 50#"? As cases can weigh that OR MORE. Who do you think is to do or how with a carry out for of you can't or don't feel like lifting it? Something like a household generator weighs 600-800#, lifted to your vehicle by only TWO employees.
Even "cash and carry "outlets have to unload, haul to display, unpack and stock the merchandise.

So physical requirements, little to no time off, working holidays, no breaks, little pay ( usually all minimum wage based, even management is not to far above minimum wage), little to no holidays off , little to no paid vacation, no pension or JOKE " matching funds" to a 401k ( try $0.03 per dollar up to the first 3% of your pay) IF you get a 401k., No weekends off. No " personal days" off with pay, NO PENSION. Nights and weekends are usually required.

Local state fed jobs all pay well above minimum, some have to work, like police DO have to work, and sometimes are all employees on deck, but vast majority get weekend off, holiday off, good paid vacation, personal days off to attend to personal things, good lunch breaks, PENSIONS. And the list goes on and on.

And we'd be OVER LOADED with government, NOT everyone can have a govt job or qualify for one.
The Air Force wouldn't take me, because I use an inhaler for asthma. I don't qualify for lots of government jobs for other reasons. Or haven't gotten hired for ones whose tests I can easily pass. And they don't tell me why.

Think about that the next time you go grocery shopping, retail shopping, home improvement shopping and eat out. That person behind the register, stocking the shelves, doing your carry out, waiting on you or cooking your food ISN'T making enough to even SAVE for retirement, let alone get a penny for pension, regardless of whether it's " exactly", " only 75%,", "only 48%" of their pay when they do retire. They don't even get a gold watch for years of service, and are subject to being fired at any time, for cause or without cause, get laud off or cut back during low season, and are often just as "overworked" as govt employees and teachers claim to be.
Lol. I fully understand and do indeed feel for those people working in the service sector. I try and let some younguns know when certain civil service tests are coming out. But here's the thing. What you are talking about are minimum wage jobs. Those are "choices" that those individuals made. Entry level jobs will always be just that, entry level. It is up to the individual to better themself. Someone once said " what would the hero(YOU!) do in your movie called life.
If I didn't have what I have, and was stuck in an entry level job, I would enroll in a nursing program at a private college ($$$ I know I know, but this is investing in your future) and come out the other side an RN, file applications and go live the good life anywhere in this great country.
The only thing limiting you to entry level work is you.

What would the hero of YOUR movie do??

I want to see people succeed, this isn't about anyone being better than others. Go out an kill the bear man.

Last edited by grouse789; 09-04-2017 at 08:23 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,561,360 times
Reputation: 27660
In plain and simple language, I don't see how this is a surprise. The population is aging. In general, states have not taxed at the level they need to maintain their pension obligations.

Everyone wants a piece of the pie but no one wants to pay for it.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:04 PM
 
Location: NNV
1,518 posts, read 973,570 times
Reputation: 3096
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
I will tell them they are overpaid and they better do a good job. If they don't like that, they can leave and be replaced by hundreds of younger and hungrier people in a heartbeat.
That is the dumbest response I've ever heard.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, a part of Los Angeles
3,982 posts, read 2,540,487 times
Reputation: 8513
I agree with david1
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,247 posts, read 4,136,323 times
Reputation: 15658
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
No they are not.

Are you familiar with the rule of 72. Money doubles at increments of the rate of return divided into 72.

So if your pension earned 8% which over 30 years most pension funds did your money doubles every 9 years.

So your 2 to 3 years of contributions is significantly greater based on that.

For the period I have been employed my pension fund earned 8.85% so my contributions doubled almost every 8 years

The getting your contributions back canard is misleading. It does not indicate how investing works.
My contributions started in 2002 and I retired in 2014. I doubt there were any eight percent years during that time.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,249 posts, read 590,159 times
Reputation: 2747
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouse789 View Post
Lol. I fully understand and do indeed feel for those people working in the service sector. I try and let some younguns know when certain civil service tests are coming out. But here's the thing. What you are talking about are minimum wage jobs. Those are "choices" that those individuals made. Entry level jobs will always be just that, entry level. It is up to the individual to better themself. Someone once said " what would the hero(YOU!) do in your movie called life.
If I didn't have what I have, and was stuck in an entry level job, I would enroll in a nursing program at a private college ($$$ I know I know, but this is investing in your future) and come out the other side an RN, file applications and go live the good life anywhere in this great country.
The only thing limiting you to entry level work is you.

What would the hero of YOUR movie do??

I want to see people succeed, this isn't about anyone being better than others. Go out an kill the bear man.
The economy has changed and so must our view of it. What used to be entry-level jobs now make up a larger percentage of available jobs and are increasingly held by adults. We can all tell our own personal stories and pat ourselves on the back, but that is not very constructive and does not acknowledge the new reality.
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