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Old 09-05-2017, 03:30 AM
 
15,419 posts, read 5,242,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
I agree with david1

Still a dumb response.Just like david1.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,651 posts, read 17,632,423 times
Reputation: 27759
Quote:
Originally Posted by snebarekim View Post
This is the kind of thing that gets private sector taxpaying peoples dander up! Granted, it is a California centric problem, but somebody in California needs to carry that burden (like you).

When you have city councils that are in lockstep with public service labor unions (all answering to the same political party of course), coupled with "pie-in-the-sky" future returns on potential investments and a kick the can down the road mentality, there is absolutely nobody looking out for the taxpayer. I realize public safety jobs are demanding, but sanity needs to prevail. Hopefully California (and Oakland) will see the light .
I've posted here before about the husband of a high school classmate of mine being a cop in a Bay Area community. He is a "police officer" - not a detective or high-level professional in the department. Between his overtime, retirement contribution, insurance, etc., his total compensation is around $220,000. There are other "police officers" there making well over $250,000 in total compensation, with one officer at over $300,000 (!) in total compensation.

https://fremont.gov/2208/Employee-Compensation

That is more than many doctors, dentists, attorneys, senior research scientists,and even corporate executives make in my area. The total compensation is mind-boggling. It is no wonder that pension funds can be a mess when you extrapolate that out to the entire government.

Bristol, TN hires "senior police officers" at $34,000 a year. That's a pittance for the thin blue line in a community that is down on its luck with drug problems where the police put their lives on the line to protect the general public daily. Some of the LEOs are making under $30,000 around here. When Panda Express is hiring for $11/hr in the kitchen and the Aldi across the street from there starts at $12 or so, how can police departments attract good candidates?

SCSO continues to lose officers because of pay scale | News | heraldcourier.com

Unsurprisingly, TN is in a lot better fiscal shape than the rich, gravy train states like CA, NJ, and IL. There is a medium between these two numbers where public workers can earn honest, decent pay, without taking the taxpayers for a ride.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:52 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,066,814 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
My contributions started in 2002 and I retired in 2014. I doubt there were any eight percent years during that time.

You are one person. A discussion of the issues with pensions should not be based on what happened with one person.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:28 AM
 
4,451 posts, read 2,626,458 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouse789 View Post
Lol. I fully understand and do indeed feel for those people working in the service sector. I try and let some younguns know when certain civil service tests are coming out. But here's the thing. What you are talking about are minimum wage jobs. Those are "choices" that those individuals made. Entry level jobs will always be just that, entry level. It is up to the individual to better themself. Someone once said " what would the hero(YOU!) do in your movie called life.
If I didn't have what I have, and was stuck in an entry level job, I would enroll in a nursing program at a private college ($$$ I know I know, but this is investing in your future) and come out the other side an RN, file applications and go live the good life anywhere in this great country.
The only thing limiting you to entry level work is you.

What would the hero of YOUR movie do??

I want to see people succeed, this isn't about anyone being better than others. Go out an kill the bear man.
Really, thanks for agreeing with me to some extent.

However, EVERY ONE this day in age NEEDS to BUY what they want and need. And to EAT. Even grocery store is retail.

Unless you want to go back to days where you MADE EVERYTHING at home? Where you actually grew or hunted ALL your food? Do you really want you or a wife to HANDSPIN cotton or wool into yarn and thread AND hand sew your clothes?

I don't have daily or even weekly need for a lawyer, or for that matter for a police man or fireman to come to my aid. Most paid fireman get paid very well for sitting around, waiting, training is on either a week. It's very good that we have them, but I don't think we should pay them and pay their pension. I've only needed a lawyer twice in my life, once to my Will, and once to buy a house.

They, just like retail, DO have to work holidays and weekends and nights, which was my point to the poster who complained about working those days, and of having to lift stuff. Retail does it all day long, in some cases 24/7 so YOU have the convenience to shop whenever you want.

Even the 'entry level " of dealing with sewer or garbage get paid VERY well compared to retail, and if it's a city job , get UNION wages and PENSIONS to boot, paid for by the service industry paycheck, since much of the country is now Service based economies.
I have a smart phone, but don't NEED one, so a tech employee coming up with aps for it isn't necessary. BUT to GET one, you must BUY one in a RETAIL setting.

Let's see how long you last making everything, growing and hunting your stuff that Retail supports.

Then we'll see if you think Retail is so low on the totem pole. Let me know when you cry UNCLE.

By the way, I don't work Retail or cook in restaurants any more, but am in another Service industry I'd like to see you go without.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: New York
831 posts, read 657,120 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
The economy has changed and so must our view of it. What used to be entry-level jobs now make up a larger percentage of available jobs and are increasingly held by adults. p
The flip side of your statement is , yes the economy has changed, and the worker must change too or be held back by entry level jobs. The adults holding those jobs are doing so because they have not changed with the economy. They have not picked up the tools needed to get better paying jobs, there is a shortage of "skilled" labor in this country. Which is why I posted an example of getting a nursing degree. Arm yourself for the new economy.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,651 posts, read 17,632,423 times
Reputation: 27759
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouse789 View Post
The flip side of your statement is , yes the economy has changed, and the worker must change too or be held back by entry level jobs. The adults holding those jobs are doing so because they have not changed with the economy. They have not picked up the tools needed to get better paying jobs, there is a shortage of "skilled" labor in this country. Which is why I posted an example of getting a nursing degree. Arm yourself for the new economy.
There are many qualifiers to this.

Many types of skilled workers are not needed in many locations. I live in northeast TN and work in IT. Many of my childhood friends (we were the nerds club basically) also majored in computer science and the hard sciences. I was an economics major, and know several accountants. These fields are all "skilled" fields, but have a very small presence in our local economy.

The vast majority of these folks have to leave to go to major cities. Arming yourself for the new economy will not help you if you choose to remain in this part of Tennessee.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:11 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,519,632 times
Reputation: 29082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The vast majority of these folks have to leave to go to major cities. Arming yourself for the new economy will not help you if you choose to remain in this part of Tennessee.
Then why do you?
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: New York
831 posts, read 657,120 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Arming yourself for the new economy will not help you if you choose to remain in this part of Tennessee.
And that wise man, was the point of my first post in this thread I believe. Choices.... Choosing to live where there isnt much of a job outlook may not be a good financial choice. However there are other things in life than money, like family or friends. Being a skilled worker and Choosing to live near loved ones in an economically challenged area is fine, but it comes with a price.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:49 AM
 
Location: NNV
1,526 posts, read 984,592 times
Reputation: 3103
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Really, thanks for agreeing with me to some extent.

However, EVERY ONE this day in age NEEDS to BUY what they want and need. And to EAT. Even grocery store is retail.

Unless you want to go back to days where you MADE EVERYTHING at home? Where you actually grew or hunted ALL your food? Do you really want you or a wife to HANDSPIN cotton or wool into yarn and thread AND hand sew your clothes?

I don't have daily or even weekly need for a lawyer, or for that matter for a police man or fireman to come to my aid. Most paid fireman get paid very well for sitting around, waiting, training is on either a week. It's very good that we have them, but I don't think we should pay them and pay their pension. I've only needed a lawyer twice in my life, once to my Will, and once to buy a house.

They, just like retail, DO have to work holidays and weekends and nights, which was my point to the poster who complained about working those days, and of having to lift stuff. Retail does it all day long, in some cases 24/7 so YOU have the convenience to shop whenever you want.

Even the 'entry level " of dealing with sewer or garbage get paid VERY well compared to retail, and if it's a city job , get UNION wages and PENSIONS to boot, paid for by the service industry paycheck, since much of the country is now Service based economies.
I have a smart phone, but don't NEED one, so a tech employee coming up with aps for it isn't necessary. BUT to GET one, you must BUY one in a RETAIL setting.

Let's see how long you last making everything, growing and hunting your stuff that Retail supports.

Then we'll see if you think Retail is so low on the totem pole. Let me know when you cry UNCLE.

By the way, I don't work Retail or cook in restaurants any more, but am in another Service industry I'd like to see you go without.
Like I told David1, go to ANY city, county, state or federal website and look at the pay and requirements for government jobs (police, fire, lawyer, doctor, psychiatrist, whatever). Tell me how many people meet those requirements. Tell me how many people pass the physical requirements for being a policeman or fireman. I don't think I'd be trivializing what these employees require to do their job. A friend of mine told me of a policeman about 50 years old who needed major back surgery because of all the weight (about 40 lbs) he carried while he was on duty.

Are there abuses to the system? Yes. Just like there are abuses in the private sector. And hopefully they will be addressed (they've started several years ago).

By the way, doesn't retail have many of the same Unions that represent government employees??? Like SEIU? Retail Clerks has a Union too.

I had a friend who worked in retail (Ralphs) for nearly 20 years starting in high school. He became Assistant Manager of a store. Had a decent salary. His body started breaking down in his late 30s and he had to go to the hospital. What did he do when he got out? Got a job in insurance, starting pay LESS than what he was making at Ralphs. What is he doing now? He's 58 and retired. House fully paid. I'm pretty sure he has more saved than I do...

No one is saying retail isn't important. But one has to look at the options if one decides they want something better.

Last edited by Vic Romano; 09-05-2017 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:53 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,937 posts, read 42,206,558 times
Reputation: 43370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
There are many qualifiers to this.

Many types of skilled workers are not needed in many locations. I live in northeast TN and work in IT. Many of my childhood friends (we were the nerds club basically) also majored in computer science and the hard sciences. I was an economics major, and know several accountants. These fields are all "skilled" fields, but have a very small presence in our local economy.

The vast majority of these folks have to leave to go to major cities. Arming yourself for the new economy will not help you if you choose to remain in this part of Tennessee.
Well, if those people move back to where there are no jobs in their field (and then complain about the lack of jobs in their field) I'd say they didn't learn a damned thing in college and wasted four years, not to mention thousands of dollars.
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