U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-05-2017, 09:44 PM
 
1,751 posts, read 598,110 times
Reputation: 1346

Advertisements

There's a phenomenon in psychology called the Dunning-Kruger effect. It describes how less intelligent people often think of themselves as more intelligent than smarter people, because they don't even understand what constitutes intelligence.

Growing up in a family of public employees, I know the mentality of some in this thread well. Frankly, a lot of government employees have the Dunning-Kruger effect for work ethic. They think they work harder than others because they don't even know what hard work is.

Hard work is not working the system.
Hard work is not following instructions.
Hard work is not playing by the rules.
Hard work is not even just putting in a lot of time. Some jobs are not that stressful and long hours are not a burden.

Hard work is working outside the system.
Hard work is inventing new processes and writing new books.
Hard work is taking risks.
Hard work includes putting in a lot of time, but it also includes mastering skills.

So to all the greedy, selfish "public servants" in this thread, everyone knows you took a shortcut and cheated the system, even if you'll be the last ones to clue in. So go f yourselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-05-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, a part of Los Angeles
4,009 posts, read 2,556,511 times
Reputation: 8593
"public servants" live off of people with real jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 10:14 PM
 
4,098 posts, read 7,805,135 times
Reputation: 5714
[quote=Avondalist;49431588]
Quote:
There's a phenomenon in psychology called the Dunning-Kruger effect. It describes how less intelligent people often think of themselves as more intelligent than smarter people, because they don't even understand what constitutes intelligence.

Growing up in a family of public employees, I know the mentality of some in this thread well. Frankly, a lot of government employees have the Dunning-Kruger effect for work ethic. They think they work harder than others because they don't even know what hard work is.

Hard work is not working the system.
Hard work is not following instructions.
Hard work is not playing by the rules.
Hard work is not even just putting in a lot of time. Some jobs are not that stressful and long hours are not a burden.

Hard work is working outside the system.
Hard work is inventing new processes and writing new books.
Hard work is taking risks.
Hard work includes putting in a lot of time, but it also includes mastering skills.

So to all the greedy, selfish "public servants" in this thread, everyone knows you took a shortcut and cheated the system, even if you'll be the last ones to clue in. So go f yourselves.
[/QUOTE

Yep, they are mostly mediocre, unmotivated, bottom of the barrel clock punchers who are a welfare burden on society. The worst thing is they actually think are important when they are not. They are lashing out at taxpayers because they are terrified that the cash cow might be shut off.

Last edited by davidt1; 09-05-2017 at 10:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 05:41 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,067,317 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Any idea of what a worker with a 30 year career retired at age 52 would need in a 401k to produce 15k per month and premium for lifetime medical with no deductible?
Who gets that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,659 posts, read 17,640,506 times
Reputation: 27762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Yep, it's tiresome to read the posters who cite high outlier pensions to "prove" how good public employees have it. Even the "California" pensions mentioned by North Beach Person are not all created equal.

Let me explain: The largest and second largest public pension systems in the U.S. are both in California, CalPERS and CalSTRS. The first is for state employees but many city and county employees are also part of CalPERS. CalSTRS is for public school teachers state-wide, from kindergarten through junior college. There is no connection between the two systems, which have different rules for retirement, different boards of directors, etc.

As a retired teacher, I know rather little about CalPERS, but I do know that medical benefits are often (always?) included in their retirements. We teachers do not get that unless the local district supplies it, which most do not.

After 34 years in the system (CalSTRS) I retired at age 61.5 with a pension of about $59,000 a year (no medical). That is not a bad pension, and I am totally satisfied with it, but it is hardly the outrageous boondoggle that some posters have been referring to. And had I been either younger or had fewer years of service, it would have been less. After 12 years of COLA's it has risen to over $60,000. During my 34 working years, I had 8% of salary deducted to support the pension, and the employer (school district) paid a like amount. Since I retired those percentages have been increased. I believe teachers currently are paying a little over 10%, with no increase in benefits.
Both systems are going to have lots of people on them, even if CalPERS is more lucrative. $60,000 is not a ridiculous boondoggle of a pension, but if you assume a 4% WR, it would take $1.5 million to get that. Assume you were married and your wife was also a California teacher. The two of you would be bringing in $120,000, and it would take $3 million for a 4% WR to generate that kind of income. It's fairly certain you wouldn't have been able to reach anywhere near that with roughly equivalent paying private sector work. It's unrealistic for the income level.

While you're staying put, many people will take those pensions and retire to cheapsville. Your pension would be nearly twice the median HHI in my hometown. That's not counting any additional savings or income you have coming in that you've saved privately. A dual teacher couple from CA would probably be in the top 5%-10% locally.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 09:42 AM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,380,904 times
Reputation: 20439
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
Who gets that?
Retired from OPD at 51... said it didn't make much sense to keep working as it was working for free when pension figured into it.

Got bored and went to work for another department...

Commanding officer at scene of two Oakland police deaths to retire – East Bay Times
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,447 posts, read 21,283,365 times
Reputation: 24296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Romano View Post
Have you tried to sort that last column from smallest to largest?

Are you willing to take a bullet or work in a jail or fight a fire in 100 degree weather or get a medical degree or two to get your paycheck and benefits? If one of those people come to your house to save you go ahead and tell them what you think...
If we built houses/apartment buildings in this country, like they do in Mexico, all concrete, we would only need a fraction of the firefighters we have now. Our firefighters need to give a big Thank-you to our powerful, lobbying lumber companies, whom, if they had their way, would even have us driving around in wooden cars and walking on wood plank sidewalks.

I work in a LTC/Rehab facility where the majority of the patients are either on Medicaid or Medicare, so, effectively, I'm a government worker without a pension! So I should feel any sympathy for government workers?

Last edited by tijlover; 09-06-2017 at 11:14 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 11:24 AM
 
52,074 posts, read 41,881,580 times
Reputation: 32473
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
If we built houses/apartment buildings in this country, like they do in Mexico, all concrete, we would only need a fraction of the firefighters we have now. Our firefighters need to give a big Thank-you to our powerful, lobbying lumber companies, whom, if they had their way, would even have us driving around in wooden cars and walking on wood plank sidewalks.

I work in a LTC/Rehab facility where the majority of the patients are either on Medicaid or Medicare, so, effectively, I'm a government worker without a pension! So I should feel any sympathy for government workers?
Lol...that's a new conspiracy for the books.

This guy explains why countries with cheap labor and far fewer trees (Mexico for example) find it more economical to build the way they do while in the US it's the opposite.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-houses...n-a-wood-house

Signed,
The Loch Ness Monster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 03:29 PM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,067,317 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
Both systems are going to have lots of people on them, even if CalPERS is more lucrative. $60,000 is not a ridiculous boondoggle of a pension, but if you assume a 4% WR, it would take $1.5 million to get that. Assume you were married and your wife was also a California teacher. The two of you would be bringing in $120,000, and it would take $3 million for a 4% WR to generate that kind of income. It's fairly certain you wouldn't have been able to reach anywhere near that with roughly equivalent paying private sector work. It's unrealistic for the income level.

While you're staying put, many people will take those pensions and retire to cheapsville. Your pension would be nearly twice the median HHI in my hometown. That's not counting any additional savings or income you have coming in that you've saved privately. A dual teacher couple from CA would probably be in the top 5%-10% locally.

You are doing the calculation wrong. You are assuming the $1.5 million needs to be there when the person dies. You need to do your calculation drawing down the principal also.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2017, 06:19 PM
 
5,432 posts, read 3,462,764 times
Reputation: 13714
If I had a $60,000 per year pension (pensions last until you die!), I'd have at least $25,000 to $35,000 left over every year!! I would seek a beach life at the ocean.

Last edited by matisse12; 09-06-2017 at 07:25 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top