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Old 09-01-2017, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Sylmar, a part of Los Angeles
3,978 posts, read 2,537,158 times
Reputation: 8497

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willistonite View Post
You have to remember most state employees and teachers get paid less then the normal pay rate in a state for their education status. Pension is a big incentive to work in the public section vs. private. Now I will say their are many jobs that should not be paying a pension in the state. Some should be similar to a 401K based retirement. Every state has hard jobs to fill competing with the private sector, those need a pension based retirement. It needs to looked into for sure to shore up these dismal percentages is some states.
That was true a decade or two ago. LA Department of Water & Power are the highest paid people on the planet for what they do. Any goverment job in Calif. has a line around the block to apply
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: New Oxford, PA
120 posts, read 59,089 times
Reputation: 464
With a pension system, you get out of it what you put into it. I retired just under two years ago (NY State Tier 4). We were able to unlimitedly boost our pension amounts through working overtime. That has been changed in Tier 5 (only able to boost by 10% over base pay at time of retirement). and shortly thereafter Tier 6 (unable to boost).

Many of my coworkers didn't do overtime, and retired at 50% of their base pay, or did more than 25 years to increase their pension percentage by 2% per year, as long as they stayed until age 55. Knowing that I would reach 25 years on the job at age 46, I chose to work the overtime, and enjoy those extra 9 years of retirement.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:30 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,277,138 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
And in turn they get state employees for WAY below market rates. That's the trade off. I left public service twice because I just couldn't afford to do it. Pay scales were just way to low, gained 40%+ each time I left. The health care as well was worse than what I received in the private sector.





This mentality is the problem. This is not the solution. The rest of labor should be fighting to move back to pensions, not worsen the system of other's to align with their crappy system. There is plenty of money out there, plenty of wealth, these changes over the past 30-40 have just benefitted the ultra wealthy. The working classes need to stop tearing town each other and work to build each other up.
The union pension jobs that existed around here are long gone... the SF East Bay was a hub of manufacturing... lots of union shops like the one I worked at and not a single one is still here... the paper mill, the GM/Toyota plant, canneries, etc... all gone.

I don't see how manufacturing can complete on the worldwide stage... then there are also regulations regarding environmental concerns applicable here and not elsewhere.

Government, Utilities and Healthcare are hard to offshore but that doesn't mean they have stopped trying...
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,246 posts, read 587,882 times
Reputation: 2742
The average state and local pension was around $26,500 in 2014.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:54 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,277,138 times
Reputation: 20410
They must not be retired from Public Safety of Nurses working for the State County in the SF Bay Area...

The average pension benefit for OPD is around a 100k... that is nearly 4 times the average cited above...

I have friends that retired in their early 50's from the department pushing 200k in retirement...

Only use this to illustrate how it depends on your prospective/location.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:58 AM
 
10,509 posts, read 8,428,809 times
Reputation: 19243
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimegoat View Post
With a pension system, you get out of it what you put into it. I retired just under two years ago (NY State Tier 4). We were able to unlimitedly boost our pension amounts through working overtime. That has been changed in Tier 5 (only able to boost by 10% over base pay at time of retirement). and shortly thereafter Tier 6 (unable to boost).

Many of my coworkers didn't do overtime, and retired at 50% of their base pay, or did more than 25 years to increase their pension percentage by 2% per year, as long as they stayed until age 55. Knowing that I would reach 25 years on the job at age 46, I chose to work the overtime, and enjoy those extra 9 years of retirement.
This was fortunate for your situation, but not all state pension systems are set up this way. Overtime for me and my coworkers meant compensatory time, not extra pay and certainly not extra money going into our eventual pensions.

Actually, few of my coworkers stuck it out for the required 25 or more years. After leaving our employer, they could get back what they had paid into the system, or if they moved to another position covered by the same state retirement system, they could transfer what was already supposedly there - but few fell into this category. The funds paid in by the agency for which we worked did not return to that agency as far as I know but remained in Frankfort.

And we know how well our contributions and those of our immediate employers were handled there... like most of the rest of the money which was supposed to fund our retirement, those funds either vanished down a black hole of bad investments made without any input from retirees or current employees covered by the system, or were diverted to cover other state expenses.

The can was kicked down the road for years, by both Democratic and Republican governors and Kentucky state legislators, upon whom the blame should fall. It should be noted that their own retirements are quite secure, as they are not part of the Kentucky Employees Retirement system which is in such dire straits at present.

The proposal to correct matters by taking back retirees' cost of living increases which were given up to 21 years ago by docking current retirees' pension checks is unjust and very probably illegal. It smacks of punishing the victims of another's misfeasance.

We'll find out if that's legal in court. We already know it is unjust.
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:04 AM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,158,624 times
Reputation: 32413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
The union pension jobs that existed around here are long gone... the SF East Bay was a hub of manufacturing... lots of union shops like the one I worked at and not a single one is still here... the paper mill, the GM/Toyota plant, canneries, etc... all gone.

I don't see how manufacturing can complete on the worldwide stage... then there are also regulations regarding environmental concerns applicable here and not elsewhere.

Government, Utilities and Healthcare are hard to offshore but that doesn't mean they have stopped trying...


We could get far far more competitive if we moved to single payer healthcare. The savings and improved results and coverage would be immense, and companies would no longer have to pay for health plan administration which would result in savings instantly making them much more competitive.
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:17 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,277,138 times
Reputation: 20410
Single payer is still administered... and the rules, inspectors and endless directives have some physicians I work with no longer accepting medicare and even a few any insurance... they are mostly the Plastic Surgeons...

Even with AHCA we still see Cash Pay patients... and Cash Pay for procedures and services almost always the lowest cost... even my dentist will offer a discount if payment is made at the time of service...

Another part of medicine is the demise of sole practitioners... they are a dying breed as the requirements for billing medicare and others requires a biller/coder, etc... just to make a reimbursement request.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:03 PM
 
5,463 posts, read 6,902,265 times
Reputation: 4244
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
We could get far far more competitive if we moved to single payer healthcare. The savings and improved results and coverage would be immense, and companies would no longer have to pay for health plan administration which would result in savings instantly making them much more competitive.
Look at the attitude of the govt pensioners just in this thread. The I got mine and go screw attitude. Can you honestly think these folks will be giving up their low/no cost health insurance to pay 15% of their salary for health insurance? Hell, the unions even fought against the Cadillac tax in Obamacare after saying how important it was to pass Obamacare.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Southern Most New Jersey
1,100 posts, read 817,928 times
Reputation: 1732
As I see it there are two choices -

Everyone pays more taxes to fund these pensions, like Chicago a tax increase always in the works. Maybe taxes have to go up 500%. No kidding. And this isn't going to happen because this country doesn't make things anymore. "You can only cut so much fat from the pig"

The other alternative, cut pensions even if promised.

I think we will see both of the above.
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