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Old 09-07-2017, 12:45 PM
 
1,079 posts, read 523,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canoesmith View Post
I would never want to qualify for Medicaid - but for ACA subsidies I thought, very possibly erroneously, that income was the measure, and that assets were not considered. Am I wrong?
You might be wrong about not wanting to qualify for Medicaid. You are right that it's only an income test.

I can only speak to California, but when expanded Medicaid came along in 2014, my provider, whom I had had for years, became a Medicaid option for only those who were already with them.

Long story short, if I hadn't managed my income, my pre-ACA premium of $7200/yr (and 6k deductible) would have gone to about 12k per year. And we know it will only rise. However, because my provider became a Medicaid option, I have the same exact plan (same member ID and all, the card was not even replaced) for zero. Nothing. No premiums, no deductibles, no co-pay, nothing. Same exact services, same provider.

And here in California, there is a new law where estate recovery cannot touch this portion of Medicaid (though it still can touch long term care Medicaid). I have heard from my attorney that other states will follow, but who knows. Trump will probably blow it all up anyway.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:45 PM
 
71,820 posts, read 71,919,037 times
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i heard grumblings they revised our law here in ny about health care recovery . but there is nothing i see on line yet pertaining to the revision .
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:20 AM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,311,568 times
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Thanks for the bragging....... I mean question.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania & New Jersey
1,497 posts, read 3,540,099 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
actually for health insurance , with expanded medicaid, income is the only criteria . long term care medicaid has other criteria .
Quote:
Originally Posted by canoesmith View Post
I would never want to qualify for Medicaid - but for ACA subsidies I thought, very possibly erroneously, that income was the measure, and that assets were not considered. Am I wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
no you are correct , but if income is to low you are not given an aca plan . you are automatically given medicaid . medicaid for health insurance may be recoverable in your state . each state is different .
Mathjak107 is absolutely correct that there is no asset test for an ACA subsidy. The subsidy is based on location, income, and filing status. (Beware! Married Filing Separately will cause you to lose any subsidy that you may otherwise qualify for. )

Avoid Medicaid! Make sure your income is high enough to stay OFF Medicaid. Or, as an alternative if you choose to remain low income, just don't apply for government health insurance; neither ACA nor Medicaid! Buy your own health policy on the open market.

As for your larger picture, consider a financial plan that puts you at 90-95% of the maximum income level you can have before exceeding the ACA subsidy cutoff (400% Federal Poverty Level). Married people should keep their Modified Adjusted Gross Income near $60K. At that level you're still entitled to a substantial ACA subsidy while enjoying the benefit of a low 15% marginal tax rate. (And you'll never pull all that money out of tax-deferred accounts at a lower marginal rate.)
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:20 AM
 
Location: North Scottsdale
30 posts, read 18,065 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbsteel View Post
Thanks for the bragging....... I mean question.
sigh. You know, if the OP doesn't put in information people ask questions like....have you paid off your house, what will your budget be, have you maxed out your tax favorable accounts, do you have an HSA, are you an idiot.


Sort of why I dislike this forum at times. Someone always has to take a shot. I knew better too.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:23 AM
 
Location: North Scottsdale
30 posts, read 18,065 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickDD View Post
Mathjak107 is absolutely correct that there is no asset test for an ACA subsidy. The subsidy is based on location, income, and filing status. (Beware! Married Filing Separately will cause you to lose any subsidy that you may otherwise qualify for. )

Avoid Medicaid! Make sure your income is high enough to stay OFF Medicaid. Or, as an alternative if you choose to remain low income, just don't apply for government health insurance; neither ACA nor Medicaid! Buy your own health policy on the open market.

As for your larger picture, consider a financial plan that puts you at 90-95% of the maximum income level you can have before exceeding the ACA subsidy cutoff (400% Federal Poverty Level). Married people should keep their Modified Adjusted Gross Income near $60K. At that level you're still entitled to a substantial ACA subsidy while enjoying the benefit of a low 15% marginal tax rate. (And you'll never pull all that money out of tax-deferred accounts at a lower marginal rate.)


Thank you Maverick. That is very helpful! I Still have a lot to learn and some time to learn it.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:41 AM
 
4,451 posts, read 2,626,458 times
Reputation: 10380
Canoesmith

People like you make me and others just as much as those who sit around doing nothing and having welfare and Medicaid. Even when I WAS on welfare and Medicaid, I volunteered at the hospital and was college student, so I was exempt from the "work" program.

I'm also never amazed at how little those who AREN'T in certain programs misunderstand them.

What are you going to do if they reinstate the "work" requirement for Medicaid? It'll be a menial minimum wage job you'll have to work I can assure you that.
Aca may only be income based, but Medicaid, at least in my state, also requires statements with paper copies to back up your claim that you have a need to have free healthcare.

I had serious severe medical issues and had to go through my retirement and savings before I could get the "SAFETY NET" of welfare and Medicaid. Even when my SSDI was approved, I had $800/month in SSDI and the medicaid ceiling was $675. I had to "spend down" and actually pay the difference back to medicaid, or show I had spent it in health care BEFORE Medicaid would pay a single bill.

You may have $0 income, but Medicaid DOES count ANY and ALL assets in my state EXCEPT your primary home nd one car for single or one car per couple if married. A second car better be a $500 beater, or they will make you sell it. Any additional property? Again sell that before you even qualify. It's a fine AND prison term for qualifying and not declaring assets. You'll never qualify for Medicaid.

Even now, my OH has two part time jobs to assimilate a full time job, I have SSDI, and I'm working part time, our income is just over $42k and I dont get Medicaid as second to my Medicare. Even when I WAS on welfare and Medicaid, we got married and my OH s income counted and I got booted off medicaid and we had only half the income we do now.both incomes had to count.

You'll have interest from $400k in taxable interest, right? THERE'S your INCOME. It WILL count towards your qualifying for Medicaid, and they will want to know how you are earning that interest, and you'll have to PAY THEM to get your medicaid.

If you go ACA, you might get away with income only means testing, but you may be taking away from someone who DOOESNT have over $2M in assets.

That's right, you are the dreaded 1%er, and ripping off the system won't endear you to anyone.

Pay your premium for COBRA like a big boy and take your lumps. Everyone else has to. Or shop around most can get a family plan for about $12k a year. Or stay working until you qualify for Medicare.

Sheesh.


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Old 09-08-2017, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
3,194 posts, read 1,969,245 times
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You might want to take a step back and look at the big picture. You'll be creating a bigger tax bill in the future by not taking money out of the 403b in early years. The question of course is how much bigger, and does this end up costing more than the ACA credits? Then of course one day it will be just one of you filing single so the tax bracket will be higher yet.


I certainly don't know the answer, but it seems you are focused only on the tax credit carrot in front of you.
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:43 AM
 
Location: North Scottsdale
30 posts, read 18,065 times
Reputation: 104
Default Angry much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Canoesmith

People like you make me and others just as much as those who sit around doing nothing and having welfare and Medicaid. Even when I WAS on welfare and Medicaid, I volunteered at the hospital and was college student, so I was exempt from the "work" program.

I'm also never amazed at how little those who AREN'T in certain programs misunderstand them.

What are you going to do if they reinstate the "work" requirement for Medicaid? It'll be a menial minimum wage job you'll have to work I can assure you that.
Aca may only be income based, but Medicaid, at least in my state, also requires statements with paper copies to back up your claim that you have a need to have free healthcare.

I had serious severe medical issues and had to go through my retirement and savings before I could get the "SAFETY NET" of welfare and Medicaid. Even when my SSDI was approved, I had $800/month in SSDI and the medicaid ceiling was $675. I had to "spend down" and actually pay the difference back to medicaid, or show I had spent it in health care BEFORE Medicaid would pay a single bill.

You may have $0 income, but Medicaid DOES count ANY and ALL assets in my state EXCEPT your primary home nd one car for single or one car per couple if married. A second car better be a $500 beater, or they will make you sell it. Any additional property? Again sell that before you even qualify. It's a fine AND prison term for qualifying and not declaring assets. You'll never qualify for Medicaid.

Even now, my OH has two part time jobs to assimilate a full time job, I have SSDI, and I'm working part time, our income is just over $42k and I dont get Medicaid as second to my Medicare. Even when I WAS on welfare and Medicaid, we got married and my OH s income counted and I got booted off medicaid and we had only half the income we do now.both incomes had to count.

You'll have interest from $400k in taxable interest, right? THERE'S your INCOME. It WILL count towards your qualifying for Medicaid, and they will want to know how you are earning that interest, and you'll have to PAY THEM to get your medicaid.

If you go ACA, you might get away with income only means testing, but you may be taking away from someone who DOOESNT have over $2M in assets.

That's right, you are the dreaded 1%er, and ripping off the system won't endear you to anyone.

Pay your premium for COBRA like a big boy and take your lumps. Everyone else has to. Or shop around most can get a family plan for about $12k a year. Or stay working until you qualify for Medicare.

Sheesh.



I never mentioned Medicaid - that was never even a consideration let alone my goal .thank you for your input.

Last edited by canoesmith; 09-08-2017 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:03 PM
 
7,954 posts, read 5,060,903 times
Reputation: 13624
Almost universally, the advice in such matters is to maximally delay one's retirement age, and to maximally reduce one's known annual expenses. So sings the chorus. Of course, the opposing chorus retorts, that one only lives once, etc., and that excessive parsimony is foolish. So where's the golden mean?

Have you considered NOT taking the lump-sum option on that $1.7M, and instead going for the annuity? What would that annuity be? Have you done an actuarial calculation, estimating the break-even life expectancy, for lump-sum vs. annuity, for a range of scenarios (inflation, rate of return, etc.)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by canoesmith View Post
... Someone always has to take a shot. I knew better too.
At the risk of my sounding petulant and obnoxious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by canoesmith View Post
...asset wise I'm a dreaded 1%'er - but I've certainly paid my dues over the years and would be following the "rules".
With $2.1M, you’re nowhere near being a “1%’er”. For a single person, that vaunted threshold is at something like $5M; presumably double that, for a couple. But nugatory distinctions aside, the real question is whether investment-income counts for purposes of ACA subsidy qualification. Does anyone know the answer to that? I refer to both taxable dividends and non-taxable (say, from tax-exempt bond funds); to both taxable accounts and non-taxable (such as Roth-IRA). My guess - and it's ONLY a guess - is that all income from taxable accounts is included, even if it's tax-free bonds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canoesmith View Post
My "crazy plan" is to roll the lump sum when I get it into the 3.5% fixed 403b account and let it sit (maybe put some to work depending on the markets at the time)...
Peace of mind is certainly worth something, too. So if one eschews the stock-market for purposes of said peace, well, at 3.5% guaranteed, that's a good bargain. Even so, an incessant voice of greed and rapacity, insists that some portion of one's investments goes into something more aggressive. Thus putting the whole $1.7M into a fixed 3.5%-vehicle sounds a bit ossified and meek.
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