U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-10-2017, 06:27 PM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,777,271 times
Reputation: 49225

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookingatFL View Post
So, if that was the situation, and the well spouse was going to have to live in poverty, is it possible to divorce the spouse who has dementia... still be there for them, but not married to them? If you divorced them and split everything 50/50, would that protect the well spouse's remaining assets?
it isn't easy to get what is called a medicaid divorce in many states which is usually what is done when a major health event happens .

two very powerful laws here in ny have been upheld and according to our estate attorney who is one of the biggest in ny there are very very few medicaid divorces .

all court actions are now pretty much based on right of refusal .

our two laws that pretty much killed off medicaid divorce are :

(1) Section 5-311 of the General Obligation Law which provides that except as provided in Section 236 of the Domestic Relations Law, a husband and wife cannot contract to relieve either his or her liability to support the other in such a manner that he or she will become incapable of self support, and therefore likely to become a public charge; and

(2) Family Court Act Section 415 which provides that the spouse or parent of a recipient of public assistance or care, or of a person liable to become in need thereof, or a patient in an institution in the department of mental hygiene if of sufficient ability, is responsible for the support of such a person. The Court has the discretion to require any such person to contribute a fair and reasonable sum for such support (child up to 21 years of age).

also if it is eventually determined that a divorce is to be pursued, the divorce needs to satisfy all of the requirements of the Domestic Relations Law, such as establishing one of the requisite grounds for a divorce. This may be difficult to accomplish because of the illness or disability of one spouse
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2017, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,053 posts, read 17,361,139 times
Reputation: 41484
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookingatFL View Post
So, if that was the situation, and the well spouse was going to have to live in poverty, is it possible to divorce the spouse who has dementia... still be there for them, but not married to them? If you divorced them and split everything 50/50, would that protect the well spouse's remaining assets?
I am guessing that might only work if you did that before the five year Medicaid look-back period. So, if you looked into a crystal ball and predicted that your spouse would have a massive stroke/fall down the stairs/develop severe Alzheimer's/whatever five years in the future perhaps you could try it.

BTW, $2,000 to $3,000 a month (depends on the state) for one person is NOT living in poverty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2017, 10:28 PM
 
10,817 posts, read 8,065,019 times
Reputation: 17029
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Life can change in an instant. I was working full-time for years after Hubby developed mild dementia and it worked out fine. Then one fall down a flight of stairs and he needed round the clock, full time care due to a traumatic brain injury. Even that worked out well for 18 months until I was diagnosed with Stage IV uterine/ovarian/colon cancer and needed surgery and months and months of chemo-therapy and recovery. BTW, I had zero symptoms and it was only discovered via a fluke.

So, surprises can, and do, happen. It is best to try to be prepared.
Oh my, this is everyone's worst nightmare situation. I am so sorry you have to go through this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 01:55 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,777,271 times
Reputation: 49225
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
I am guessing that might only work if you did that before the five year Medicaid look-back period. So, if you looked into a crystal ball and predicted that your spouse would have a massive stroke/fall down the stairs/develop severe Alzheimer's/whatever five years in the future perhaps you could try it.

BTW, $2,000 to $3,000 a month (depends on the state) for one person is NOT living in poverty.
you would be impoverished and living in a low income housing project with 36k a year here .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,053 posts, read 17,361,139 times
Reputation: 41484
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you would be impoverished and living in a low income housing project with 36k a year here .
While that is true in a few isolated high COL areas in the US, for the vast majority of Americans, $36,000 a year, to support one person, is not considered poverty level.

In my state that is poverty level for a family of six or seven people. And, we have a slightly higher COL than the average state.

Last edited by germaine2626; 09-11-2017 at 07:32 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 07:08 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,777,271 times
Reputation: 49225
key word in what i said is "here " being nyc . i certainly can't comment about other areas .


Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you would be impoverished and living in a low income housing project with 36k a year here .

Last edited by mathjak107; 09-11-2017 at 07:17 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,242 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by superk View Post

Also note that, whether a LTC policy is used, or Medicaid is used, by law the level and quality of the care must be exactly the same.

That's not 100% true. That's only true for facilities that take Medicaid patients and private pay patients.

The best facilities don't take Medicaid. Period.

Also, there is usually a long waiting list to get into a facility if you are relying on Medicaid. There is rarely a waiting list if you are using long-term care insurance.

Also, if you are relying on Medicaid you'll have to share a room with someone else. If you pay privately you don't have to share a room.

Lastly, it's a lot harder to get care at home if you're relying on Medicaid. Although there are Medicaid programs that can and do pay for care at home, those programs are very limited and have long waiting lists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 11:35 AM
 
9,893 posts, read 3,276,816 times
Reputation: 7254
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookingatFL View Post
So, if that was the situation, and the well spouse was going to have to live in poverty, is it possible to divorce the spouse who has dementia... still be there for them, but not married to them? If you divorced them and split everything 50/50, would that protect the well spouse's remaining assets?
as has been stated varies by state. but i would suggest if someone is concerned and believes there is a high chance they may find themselves underfunded should either one suffer a huge ailment. a divorce before anyone gets sick might fit the bill. i have heard of people preempting the financial issue by divorcing prior to a diagnosis..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 12:05 PM
 
Location: LTCShop.com
236 posts, read 113,242 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
The scenario would be a married couple both in their late 60's, on medicare, retired and not having long term care insurance. What happens if one has to be admitted to a long term care facility with Alzheimer's or other nursing needs?

I know it is a wise thing to have but some people simply can not afford and others, due to existing health issues, can not purchase at any price.

This would not be an issue of being negligent.

Let's put a value on the home of residence at $200k and they do not own any other property.

His social security benefit is $2,600 while the wife receives $1,300 for a combined monthly benefit of $3,900.

They have a combined savings and IRA accounts of $150k with most of this in the IRA accounts.

They have two cars; one is valued at $12,000 the other at $8,000.

The husband develops Alzheimer's and needs full time nursing home care. What happens to the spouse? What happens to his social security benefit? If they take half the total benefit the spouse not needing care can not afford to continue living where they are.

What happens to the IRA and savings account?

Same thing if the wife develops Alzheimer's, what happens?

What effect does having a Plan G or Plan F supplement have on this scenario?

In the long run as I understand it Medicare has to take care of the afflicted but what happens to the spouse that is not afflicted and might live another 20 years?



Let's put a value on the home of residence at $200k and they do not own any other property.
The healthy spouse can remain in the home.
In most cases the state will put a lien on the home.
If the home is in a revocable trust it will have to be taken out of the trust before you can qualify for Medicaid.


His social security benefit is $2,600 while the wife receives $1,300 for a combined monthly benefit of $3,900.
Medicaid will allow for some of the Medicaid recipient's income to go to the healthy spouse.
She can have a minimum income of $2,003 and a maximum of $3,023 (depending upon her housing expenses.). Therefore, at least $703 of husband's income will go to the wife. The rest of husband's income will go to the nursing home.


They have a combined savings and IRA accounts of $150k with most of this in the IRA accounts.

The required minimum distributions will need to be taken from the IRA each year and that will be counted as income.
The state won't count the wife's IRA as an asset, but she will need to take her RMD's and that will count towards her income. The husband's RMD's will also be counted as income.


They have two cars; one is valued at $12,000 the other at $8,000.
One car would need to be sold.


The husband develops Alzheimer's and needs full time nursing home care. What happens to the spouse? What happens to his social security benefit? If they take half the total benefit the spouse not needing care can not afford to continue living where they are.
Some of the husband's income will go to the wife so that her income is between $2,003 per month and $3,023 per month.


What happens to the IRA and savings account?

The IRA RMD's will need to be taken each year and counted as income for each spouse. The savings accounts will be added up and essentially half of that amount will need to be spent on the nursing home care.


Same thing if the wife develops Alzheimer's, what happens?
The IRA's would still require RMD's.
The savings accounts would still be divided evenly with half going to the nursing home.
One car would still need to be sold.
The state could still put a lien on the house and reimburse themselves after both spouses have passed away.
The only thing that would change would be the income distribution. Since the husband's income is $2,600 in the best case scenario, the husband could keep about $400 from his wife's income. All of her income will go to the nursing home.


What effect does having a Plan G or Plan F supplement have on this scenario?
This has no effect at all. Medicare doesn't pay for long-term care and Medicare supplements don't pay for long-term care.


I would go VA because it wouldn't cost me a dime and my wife would be well protected.

Just because you're a veteran doesn't mean you can get into a VA nursing home. And if you can get into one it is not necessarily free. In many cases, the income restrictions are similar to Medicaid's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2017, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,971 posts, read 1,375,321 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale212 View Post
nice4, if I can remember from a previous post of yours that you are a Veteran who served in Vietnam. The VA does offer some long term care benefits to Veterans, but there are eligibility requirements related to service connected disability status as well as income. You should contact the resource I have provided below sooner rather than later so you will know before you may need it what is available to you from the VA.

Where to get help regarding VA long-term care benefits

You can get free assistance with any VA-related question or problem by phone or in person through one of the VA's Vet Centers, which are located in every state. You can also get assistance by contacting the Veterans Benefits Administration office nearest you. The VA also has a toll-free telephone help line at 800-827-1000.
I always forget about VA benefits, I have never used them for medical reasons. I did buy a house using a VA loan. Last night my wife reminded me that itís been 50 years this month that I returned from Vietnam. Why should I get VA medical benefits if I was not wounded.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top