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Old 09-14-2017, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,246 posts, read 587,882 times
Reputation: 2742

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingFan View Post
As a local govt. employee I have contributed (forced to actually) 6.5% of my salary since I started working 35 years ago and the govt. has matched my contribution and it goes into the Public Employees Retirement Association. I will retire in 5 years and will be fine with my pension/SS combo. I personally think I would have amassed a similar amount in 401k situation with same combination of contribution/match. But it is what it is. What I find interesting today is that the local government is having a hard time attracting and retaining millennials. They much rather have a 401k match and work for a few years and move on. They do not want to be locked in to a pension system that only pays out if you put in decades of service.
Most pension plans "pay out" after a vesting period, which is not decades. My current pension plan is vested at 10 years. I formerly worked for a local government. I was not with them long enough to get vested, but it was only 5 years to be vested at that job. Once you have put in a few years, there is a huge incentive to at least stay long enough to reach the minimum number for vesting.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,678 posts, read 49,430,310 times
Reputation: 19129
Serious Conversation -
I think it has always been this way.

Government jobs offer job security, low pay and a pension.

Private sector jobs offer better pay, but with it a dose of unsecurity.

After I had served 6 years in the US Navy, I was uncertain of what I wanted to do with my future. Most men that I served with were all getting out [they boasted of high paying jobs with short contracts], so I got out too. 4 years later when I was finishing college, the playing field still looked the same, and I decided to go back into uniform to get the pension.

Now this was all decades ago. Facebook has come along and with it, I have been able to reconnect with many of the former crewmates that I served with in the 70s. Funny thing is that I am on pension and those guys are all still working, still uncertain of their future.

Have you gone to the OPM website? They provide the listing of Federal job openings. They are very strict about qualifications, look through and see what openings you are qualified for.

After I retired, my Dw went on OPM and found a Federal job. She worked there and eventually got their pension. Now we both have pensions, and neither of us are SS eligible, yet.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,769 posts, read 4,827,803 times
Reputation: 19395
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA View Post
Most pension plans "pay out" after a vesting period, which is not decades. My current pension plan is vested at 10 years. I formerly worked for a local government. I was not with them long enough to get vested, but it was only 5 years to be vested at that job. Once you have put in a few years, there is a huge incentive to at least stay long enough to reach the minimum number for vesting.
Yes, but being vested doesn't mean you will get a pension large enough to live on. And they don't "pay out" until you achieve the minimum retirement age (usually 55, although at some employers it's age 50, others 60, or even 65) Most pension amounts are based upon years of service, average of some number of years of highest salary, and a multiplier expressed as a percentage. The multiplier, in turn, may be based upon age at retirement. At ten years (or whatever is the minimum vesting at that employer), you won't get much of a pension. Generally 25 to 35 years are needed to have a pension you could live on.

As an example, my employer had a 2% at 55 formula. At 55 years old your pension is 2% of the average of your salary your highest paid three years, times the number of years you have worked there. If you retire earlier or later than 55, your percentage multiplier will vary a little.

So if you made $100K per year in your highest paid 3 years, and you worked there 30 years, and you retired at 55 you would receive $60K per year. The same person retiring after working there 10 years (minimum to vest), retiring at 55, would only receive $20K per year.

Also, many of the pension plans have a medical insurance component and the longer you work there after vesting, the higher the percentage of your insurance premium would be paid by the employer. In our case you had to have a minimum of 25 years to achieve a 100% paid medical insurance premium. After 10 years (minimum to vest) it would be something like only 25% of the premium would be paid by the employer.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,769 posts, read 4,827,803 times
Reputation: 19395
Serious Conversation, Have you looked at the IT jobs posted by the cities, counties, state, and feds in TN? Are you willing to move within the state to find a government IT job? Every city, county, and state have job listings on their websites. There are also public agencies like TVA, utility districts, etc, that also have retirement plans. Here's a software engineer job at TVA in Knoxville that starts at $78K. https://tvacareers.ttcportals.com/jo...r-erp-b-506147 Unfortunately the application period on this one just closed, but you can see that jobs are available and it's just a matter of diligence on the part of applicants to find one that will work out.

You have to be diligent in searching for, and applying, to get permanent employment at a public agency. You have to check all the websites weekly for newly posted jobs, and apply to anything you are remotely qualified for. After taking ANY job in an agency, it is much easier to find something to promote to that better suits your skillset. Many jobs are offered only to internal candidates, so that foot in the door, even at sub-par pay, is the key to the better positions.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,572 posts, read 17,544,804 times
Reputation: 27635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Serious Conversation -
I think it has always been this way.

Government jobs offer job security, low pay and a pension.

Private sector jobs offer better pay, but with it a dose of unsecurity.

After I had served 6 years in the US Navy, I was uncertain of what I wanted to do with my future. Most men that I served with were all getting out [they boasted of high paying jobs with short contracts], so I got out too. 4 years later when I was finishing college, the playing field still looked the same, and I decided to go back into uniform to get the pension.

Now this was all decades ago. Facebook has come along and with it, I have been able to reconnect with many of the former crewmates that I served with in the 70s. Funny thing is that I am on pension and those guys are all still working, still uncertain of their future.

Have you gone to the OPM website? They provide the listing of Federal job openings. They are very strict about qualifications, look through and see what openings you are qualified for.

After I retired, my Dw went on OPM and found a Federal job. She worked there and eventually got their pension. Now we both have pensions, and neither of us are SS eligible, yet.
True, and I think some of this varies by location.

In areas like where I am with weak economies and low wages, government employment is seen as especially desirable because the wages, while not great, are often as much or more than what you can get for similar work in the private sector. That's not even considering the additional stability and benefits government work brings.

When I lived in Indianapolis, I dated a woman for awhile who worked in the state library. I don't remember what she did, but she made about $45,000, and she had around five weeks of PTO between sick and vacation time. 10-12 holidays. Pension. Much better insurance than in the private sector.

I made $60,000 in the private sector. The insurance was much worse and more expensive. I was salaried, but even if you needed to go to the doctor and come in an hour late, you had to use PTO in minimum half-day increments. Vacation was two weeks with one week sick time. No pension and the 401k match was crappy. Both employers were in the financial services space so we got the bank holidays.

If you lost your job in the private sector, you could probably find something else in relatively short order due to the healthy economy. People would job hop to competitors frequently. It is the complete opposite mentality of where I am now where people try to get on with the government or a big private sector employer and hunker down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
Serious Conversation, Have you looked at the IT jobs posted by the cities, counties, state, and feds in TN? Are you willing to move within the state to find a government IT job? Every city, county, and state have job listings on their websites. There are also public agencies like TVA, utility districts, etc, that also have retirement plans. Here's a software engineer job at TVA in Knoxville that starts at $78K. https://tvacareers.ttcportals.com/jo...r-erp-b-506147 Unfortunately the application period on this one just closed, but you can see that jobs are available and it's just a matter of diligence on the part of applicants to find one that will work out.

You have to be diligent in searching for, and applying, to get permanent employment at a public agency. You have to check all the websites weekly for newly posted jobs, and apply to anything you are remotely qualified for. After taking ANY job in an agency, it is much easier to find something to promote to that better suits your skillset. Many jobs are offered only to internal candidates, so that foot in the door, even at sub-par pay, is the key to the better positions.
I have casually looked at them. Before I accepted my current job and when I was still in Indiana, someone with a municipal government in Brownsville, TN (near Memphis) got a hold of my resume, no idea how, and was interested in me. The job seemed fine, but I am not interested in west TN at all. I'm also not interested in places that are smaller or more isolated than the Tri-Cities. When I moved to Indianapolis, I was not making much money here, my finances were all to pieces, and I could not be picky. I am in a better place now financially and can be more selective.

That basically leaves me with Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Nashville. The odds of me remaining in the Tri-Cities past 2020 are low. That would make me 33. That's still young enough IMO to go somewhere different and try something new. If it looks like I will lose my job in the potential upcoming merger, obviously that timetable will be accelerated. I would basically have to be promoted into management and be making considerably more money than what I am now to stay here permanently. I am planning on staying at my current employer for awhile, as I just received a very good review and my manager told me there is a strong possibility I can be promoted to senior, as well as to try and get some tenure after moving around a lot. I'm also not totally set on staying in IT.

It is nice to be back around family, but I simply do not like living in the Tri-Cities. I'm not happy here personally, would not be back to the place if my family wasn't here, and my personal life feels like it's basically at a standstill. I've barely dated, traveled less, and feel like this year has been a washout. Though the jobs in Indianapolis sucked, I preferred living there on a day to day basis, if you exclude the fact that family wasn't there, to Kingsport. The flip side of that is I basically get yanked into stuff by the family that I do not necessarily want to be involved in.

With that said, I always have one eye open. The worst thing people can do is get too complacent. I want the next move I make to be a place I can comfortably stay for around ten years. I can't do that in Kingsport primarily due to the lousy job market, but even if the job market was hot, I wouldn't want to live here anyway.

Last edited by Serious Conversation; 09-14-2017 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:59 AM
 
2,675 posts, read 4,534,960 times
Reputation: 2131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I've bought a few of the $6.95 Intelius reports. Public records are easy to find these days. I keep a bookmark folder on my personal browser with records and background sites in the event I ever need them. Is it nosey? Yes, but it's all readily available. It's just the day and age.

With that said, hopefully people won't make me the object of the conversation as sometimes happens in my threads.



The basic conventional wisdom is that if you can get higher returns in the market vs. the interest rate on your home, it's better to invest in the market.
Not true. That ignores risk. Your fixed mortgage carries no risk, and you owe that money regardless of any other change. (If you have an adjustable mortgage there may be other reason to pay it off early.) The market has far more risk, so you have to adjust the expected returns when comparing these. And certain right now, the returns on safe investments like bonds are lower than mortgage interest rates.

And there are other factors, such as how knowledgeable people are about investing, tax rates and whether you can deduct mortgage interest, how disciplined they are about saving versus making mortgage payments, etc.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,572 posts, read 17,544,804 times
Reputation: 27635
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACWhite View Post
Not true. That ignores risk. Your fixed mortgage carries no risk, and you owe that money regardless of any other change. (If you have an adjustable mortgage there may be other reason to pay it off early.) The market has far more risk, so you have to adjust the expected returns when comparing these. And certain right now, the returns on safe investments like bonds are lower than mortgage interest rates.

And there are other factors, such as how knowledgeable people are about investing, tax rates and whether you can deduct mortgage interest, how disciplined they are about saving versus making mortgage payments, etc.
You can use that argument. You could find any point-in-time snapshot during a market downturn and use that as sufficient evidence of paying the mortgage off first. Over the long run, markets tend to appreciate more annually than current interest rates.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:03 AM
 
Location: New York
831 posts, read 652,991 times
Reputation: 1536
Serious Conversation, get a Govt job bro. You just missed the filing period for the FDNY. Some say it's the best job in the world. Plus others say wearing the uniform is like a magic cape with the ladies...
NYPD gives out the test more regularly.
Check this site out. The city has IT positions too.

https://a856-eeexams.nyc.gov/OLEE/oasys/ExamList.aspx
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Central IL
15,209 posts, read 8,513,923 times
Reputation: 35606
I'll have a private pension that should pay about 40% of my highest salary but they also have a 401(k) plan. When I started 25 years ago I probably put about 10% of my salary in, now I've upped that to 20%. I feel pretty good at that level and it should allow me to delay taking SS until 70 - at least that's the plan.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:30 PM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,061,524 times
Reputation: 1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
You'd be very hard pressed to find a private pension with better terms than most government plans. Where do you work?
I would trade my pension for my brothers 401k and match with IBM.

My friend works for J and j and has a great pension plus 401k
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