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Old 09-21-2017, 12:37 PM
 
20,577 posts, read 16,637,575 times
Reputation: 38634

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Bada Bing!

We are building up for and not spending down. It amazes me how some react when you tell them that. Many understand and agree
I've worked in long term care for almost two decades and have never met anyone who planned to go into a home let alone plan in advance to spend down. IMO if it happens at all it is rare, no one plans to become destitute. Hiding assets is another subject, but as far as topic, I don't think it happens much if at all.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,785 posts, read 4,838,667 times
Reputation: 19458
True, but we hear on this site all the time that people are not worried about LTC because they will just spend down or "go broke" and let the state take care of them. They say they are not worried because the state won't "let them sleep under a bridge", etc. And I recall another who planned to gift substantial assets to a son and to reduce her reportable income to a poverty level to qualify for in-home support services should she find the need, even though she wasn't presently even retired, or disabled.

I don't know if it's these reports that you will need a million bucks and people know they won't have it and become discouraged , or if people are just betting that they will be one of the ones who don't need LTC. Personally I buy insurance for my car, my house, my boat, and any other major thing for which I might be liable, so by having LTCi, it's just one more thing I can stop worrying about. I bought it early (my 40's) after seeing a 35 year old friend reduced to a wheelchair and full-time assistance because of early-onset Parkinson's. You don't need a million bucks, just a viable retirement budget and LTCi.
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Old 09-21-2017, 02:39 PM
 
20,577 posts, read 16,637,575 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
I was also referring to being financially stable with or without in-home or NH care. LTCi is not a person's ONLY income while they are in NH care. As I mentioned, a pension can provide financial security, and SS is also still going to be paying. So using myself as an example.....I'm going to assume that my DH is still living and in our home, so I won't include the equity in our home, or the money I would receive as a survivor benefit from his pension if he passed first.

I currently receive $3600/month pension (w/COLA). I will someday receive $2000/month SS (or more depending on how long I delay it). I have LTCi which would pay $180/day at today's rate (comes with inflation protection) which would equal $5400/month. So....3600 + 2000 + 5400 = $11,000/month. So a moderate pension + SS + LTCi will pay for most NH costs without my DH even having to spend a dime of his pension or SS, or sell our home. He would sell the home, because it's too much for one person, but he wouldn't HAVE TO if he didn't choose to.

My MIL is currently in AL with dementia, and she receives only a smallish teacher's pension, SS, and VA A&A. This covers her AL costs entirely. When she needs a higher level of care, the VA will also increase her A&A payment up to a point, after which we will dip into her modest retirement savings to pay the balance each month.

There are many ways to achieve financial security and LTC security, and having 2 million bucks in the bank/investments is not the only way. Purchasing rental properties can also provide sufficient additional monthly income to offset costs, or the at-home spouse could sell the home for the equity and move into a modest rental where he could live off SS and retirement savings, and any pension to which they are entitled. So I stand by what I said earlier.
Just FYI, the majority of people don't have pensions of any sort, large or small.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,079 posts, read 13,598,798 times
Reputation: 22137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
medicaid is a joint federal/state combo .certain things are mandated by the fed and other things are left up to the states .

"Medicaid
Medicaid is a joint federal and state program that helps with medical costs for some people with limited income and resources. Medicaid also offers benefits not normally covered by Medicare, like nursing home care and personal care services."
Just cross your fingers they don't block grant medicaid because most states will never be able to make up the cuts by the feds. My guess is if that were to happen a number of states who don't already have them will pass and enforce filial responsibility laws
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,241 posts, read 8,532,850 times
Reputation: 35674
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
True, but we hear on this site all the time that people are not worried about LTC because they will just spend down or "go broke" and let the state take care of them. They say they are not worried because the state won't "let them sleep under a bridge", etc. And I recall another who planned to gift substantial assets to a son and to reduce her reportable income to a poverty level to qualify for in-home support services should she find the need, even though she wasn't presently even retired, or disabled.

I don't know if it's these reports that you will need a million bucks and people know they won't have it and become discouraged , or if people are just betting that they will be one of the ones who don't need LTC. Personally I buy insurance for my car, my house, my boat, and any other major thing for which I might be liable, so by having LTCi, it's just one more thing I can stop worrying about. I bought it early (my 40's) after seeing a 35 year old friend reduced to a wheelchair and full-time assistance because of early-onset Parkinson's. You don't need a million bucks, just a viable retirement budget and LTCi.
You have that much faith in your LTCi? That it will cover you when you need it and cover the things you need? And that the amount will be enough, regardless of inflation? And that you'll never have to reduce your coverage or inflation rider because of rate increases?

See, I know how auto insurance works...very transparent...I know how homeowners and life insurance works. I have no such confidence in LTCi.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:27 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,144,092 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Just cross your fingers they don't block grant medicaid because most states will never be able to make up the cuts by the feds. My guess is if that were to happen a number of states who don't already have them will pass and enforce filial responsibility laws
Filial responsibility laws ... yep ... that'll work.

After all ... the Millennials are just rolling in $$$$.

Noooooooo problem!

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Old 09-21-2017, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,079 posts, read 13,598,798 times
Reputation: 22137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
Filial responsibility laws ... yep ... that'll work.

After all ... the Millennials are just rolling in $$$$.

Noooooooo problem!

I never said it was a good idea, but what do you think will happen if this latest Trumpcare thing is passed and medicaid is cut by 300 billion in 2027? The states can't come up with that kind of money and it's unlikely that people would be very receptive to grandma dying on the sidewalk, so who will pay for it? https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/f...?itok=WaUxjTVo

And I'm pretty sure a good number of adult children in their 40s and up will have assets that states could go after if necessary.
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:24 PM
 
6,452 posts, read 3,073,533 times
Reputation: 5896
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
They (Florida communities) also had special needs hurricane shelters set up just for this possibility, and for those who had special medical needs in the home that required power. There were alternatives that any person in charge with an ounce of common sense could have taken to avoid this tragedy. This was not an unforeseeable situation. This isn't Florida's first hurricane after all. They were warned that there would be lengthy power outages, possibly weeks long. The management of that NH failed to test and service their generator, which was required.
Exactly, no amount of money can protect you from either stupidity or willful evil neglect.

There was a fully functioning air conditioned hospital directly across the street from this nursing home.

All they had to do was call 911 and have the residents evacuated to the hospital. Even if they were lined up on beds in the halls they would have been better off.

And, you are right, this was not an unusual event in FL. Not the first and probably not the last time power is down for a week or longer due to hurricanes.

Almost all business in the US have had disaster recovery plans since 9/11 and Katrina. What happened here?

Hopefully, a FL jury will send a strong message either in criminal or civil court that what happened in this nursing home is unacceptable in this country.

I would love to see the profits of this nursing home vs. what a generator to run the A/C would cost. I hope they bankrupt them and everyone who made the stupid decisions that resulted in the deaths of 9 people.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:25 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,144,092 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I never said it was a good idea, but what do you think will happen if this latest Trumpcare thing is passed and medicaid is cut by 300 billion in 2027? The states can't come up with that kind of money and it's unlikely that people would be very receptive to grandma dying on the sidewalk, so who will pay for it? https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/f...?itok=WaUxjTVo

And I'm pretty sure a good number of adult children in their 40s and up will have assets that states could go after if necessary.
Filial responsibility laws are based on the premise that successive generations achieve increasingly better financial outcomes. That formula broke after (actually during the latter part of) the Boomers. If, in general, the younger generation asked to care for an older generation are poorer than that older generation, a financial downward spiral will ensue.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:26 PM
 
13,915 posts, read 7,411,228 times
Reputation: 25410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Hopefully, a FL jury will send a strong message either in criminal or civil court that what happened in this nursing home is unacceptable in this country.
All that will do is jack up nursing home costs as nursing homes pass on their jacked up liability insurance premiums. Poor people sue at the drop of the hat. It's like winning the lottery if the nursing home kills off granny.

All you have to do is look at the Baby Boomer demographics and census data about their household net worth. Every state in the union is going to be facing a Medicaid crisis as long term care for the elderly jumps from 1/3 of their Medicaid budget to well more than half. For example, in Massachusetts, Medicaid is now 25% of the state budget. Then layer on the demand for elderly housing that doesn't exist for all those Boomers and all the services they will be demanding beyond housing and nursing homes. Medicaid nursing home quality is going to be awful.
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