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Old 10-08-2017, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,767 posts, read 4,825,615 times
Reputation: 19395

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
In my family no one ever retires except Mom did at 62.

They all work until they drop.

The difference is all were in business for themselves... and it is a difference.

One side are dairy farmers and the work is 7 days a week but for that side it was everything and they were not slaving for other people.

The other side were small shop keepers and my step grandfather built a small tool and die shop... even in his 80's he was the first to open in the morning and spent every Saturday morning at the shop laying out next weeks work.

He was most grateful for the opportunity America gave him and REFUSED to take one penny of Social Security...

He said where else can a person come with nothing and build a business...

It could very well be we are getting soft and I wonder what past generations would say today?
Wonderful examples of people who didn't "slave within the system". But they worked a lot harder than the "wage slaves" of their time. Perhaps the difference is that they were working for their own goals and not "the man's". Maybe the OP should ask himself if he would like a 12 hour per day, 7 day week of the dairy farmer, the insecurity of owning a business that depends on many variables including the health of the economy, or the 40-50 hour weeks of today's worker bees?
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,767 posts, read 4,825,615 times
Reputation: 19395
We can all probably tell a tale of a co-worker who delayed retirement, and then dropped dead a few months after retiring. I have one of those stories myself. We remember them because they are quite remarkable. Why? because they are not the norm. For every guy that drops two weeks after retiring there are probably a hundred who DIDN'T drop dead until years later.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:19 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,257,058 times
Reputation: 20405
There are many ways to look at working...

Posted before about a retired factory executive for a bottling company... worked his way up from the shop floor taking night classes and moved to Oakland CA when the business was expanding.

Clyde was well liked and had a long career... never rich but enough so he and his wife who worked in the union at the glass plant could take nice trips every year, buy new cars and not have money worries.

Anyway, they retired to Florida to be with other retirees from their families.

Soon having the time for endless golf and all the drinking that was prevalent in their circle was taking a toll... too much of the good life???

Clyde shopped at a local market and the manager was bemoaning the fact that kids today only work until then make enough to buy a car... concert tickets, I-Phone... etc.

Clyde was listening and said he might be interested in a job... the manager thought it was a joke but Clyde told him he wanted the late night shift stocking shelves and he would give it a go and if either didn't like it he would leave... no questions asked.

Clyde soon became the most popular employee... the manager even asked if Clyde was out for his job... Clyde said been there, done that and never again.

Clyde's charming personality and demeanor made him a customer favorite AND was highly respected as a mentor to the other employees... instilling work ethics and plenty of good advice when asked.

He became so close that he was Best Man at one of the 20 somethings wedding who credited Clyde with turning his life around.

At Clyde's funeral his wife said working at the store became his joy in life... he became the man she had married 45 years ago and he loved each and everyone of his co-workers... the manager and regional manager said Clyde was one of a kind.

I only point this out because Clyde did not have to work but it was work that "Saved" him and renewed his purpose in life...

He was also quite generous without fanfare... giving a hand to those down and out saying if you can't pay me back... help someone else after I'm gone...
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:45 AM
 
20,533 posts, read 16,605,258 times
Reputation: 38545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksnacknyc View Post
So is everyone in NYC okay with slaving for other people and retiring at an old age and then dying?
It honestly doesn't make any sense to me...
why is life set up this way? It's a system I know but... don't we all wanna stay away from the system?
Thoughts on this?
No one said you need to wait until you retire to enjoy life. Maybe you're in the wrong job. I wish I didn't have to work, but I sought a career with flexibility and I'm not waiting for anything to have fun and enjoy my life. I will never be able to retire, and have genetics that already have me in pain from arthritis, but that's all the more reason to have fun.

OP would you honestly be happy for the rest of your life if you just woke up and had no where you had to go, nothing you had to do? What would you be doing with your life if you had someone paying your rent and bills from tomorrow on? What would you do tomorrow and the next day and 6 months from now? What ever the answer to that is, maybe is what you should seek a career in.

When I was in my late teens, early 20's and working crap jobs, I used to try to go on unemployment for the summer. I liked being able to sleep late, etc, but in reality I had no structure , stayed in bed too much, watched too much TV, and didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would (I was off but all my friends were at work) and invariably, when I started working again, my grandmother would always comment "You look so much happier when you're working".

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 10-08-2017 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:22 PM
 
26,075 posts, read 28,478,940 times
Reputation: 24783
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
We work for the same organization. I do have other savings as well. It is tricky though... I try to be reasonable about savings but then I wonder, where is the line between skimping and saving while I have my health and having fun.
Yes, this is always the question. I think the line is where you eliminate spending on anything that isn't bringing you happiness or a sense of well being. It is important to reevaluate that on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
The pension is indispensable though. It is a big chunk of the retirement income.
Mine will likely be the same. But I don't like that it is. If I move to a cheaper area, then I will be less dependent on it. If I retire in the expensive area where I live, then I will need that pension plus my investment portfolio. My general worldview is that less dependence on big centralized systems (money, the power grid, etc.) is a good thing. I'm far from that ideal now, but I always think about how vulnerable people in urban areas really are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
I like this guy and I do try to live my life that way but also, the issue with this for me is that I have pretty much cut to the core. I have a cheap cell service plan (and no hardline) I have the minimum cable -- which is going to be cut next year when my contract is up. But for me the biggest expenses are things I don't see coming. Like a home problem -- new screen door - or a bill for parking because I forgot to pay at the start of the month. Or my condo unreasonably raises assessments. Or clothing rips.
I'm a renter so my uncontrolled expenses come in the form of rent increases. Fortunately, there are limits as to how much my rent can go up, but several years of maximum allowable rent increases would cut into the amount I can save/invest. The rent I pay now is well below market rate. I can't move anywhere in my area with similar rents. I'd have to move out of town. So I'm sort of like a homeowner with no home equity. Pick your poison, I guess. Frugal sites like Mr. Money Mustache do advocate learning practical repair skills. That might be something to look into. I know I am clueless about that stuff, but I can see where being able to fix and repair things on your own can help a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
One thing about working as well is all the money I spend because of working. Paying for parking, paying for clothing, paying for food because I can't remember to bring my own. Dry cleaning. Sometimes I think 30% of my salary goes to pay for my job.
MMM talks about having a bikeable commute. I know that's not possible for everyone. I am fortunate that I walk to work. I realize not everyone can do this. But as I look back, I realize I could have pursued this option for myself much sooner than I actually did. I think more people could probably do the same. Sometimes moving closer to work really is worth the hassle. As far as not remembering lunch...that's more about planning than anything else. I find making stuff and making extra for leftovers is a great way to have lunch for work. You can also buy some reasonably healthy convenience foods at work for the days when you're just being lazy. You can get reasonably healthy soups on sale at the grocery store. Add an orange or other fruit and you're good for a half decent lunch. Not that hard. Just requires advance planning and stocking up on the non-perishable stuff when it's on sale so that you'll have plenty stocked up for your lazy days.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:27 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 858,396 times
Reputation: 5027
Maybe Clyde didn't want to be home alone with his wife? My wife and I are retired for 9 years. We don't miss work. We each have our own activities and interests, but are together at home or out together most of the time. It takes some imagination to keep active during retirement. I retired at 59, was home alone (my wife hadn't retired yet) for a year, then went back to work for 2 years. At 62, I was retired and my wife was too. Saw no reason to work anymore. Retirement reminds me of being a kid on summer vacation. You found thing to do. They didn't come to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
There are many ways to look at working...

Posted before about a retired factory executive for a bottling company... worked his way up from the shop floor taking night classes and moved to Oakland CA when the business was expanding.

Clyde was well liked and had a long career... never rich but enough so he and his wife who worked in the union at the glass plant could take nice trips every year, buy new cars and not have money worries.

Anyway, they retired to Florida to be with other retirees from their families.

Soon having the time for endless golf and all the drinking that was prevalent in their circle was taking a toll... too much of the good life???

Clyde shopped at a local market and the manager was bemoaning the fact that kids today only work until then make enough to buy a car... concert tickets, I-Phone... etc.

Clyde was listening and said he might be interested in a job... the manager thought it was a joke but Clyde told him he wanted the late night shift stocking shelves and he would give it a go and if either didn't like it he would leave... no questions asked.

Clyde soon became the most popular employee... the manager even asked if Clyde was out for his job... Clyde said been there, done that and never again.

Clyde's charming personality and demeanor made him a customer favorite AND was highly respected as a mentor to the other employees... instilling work ethics and plenty of good advice when asked.

He became so close that he was Best Man at one of the 20 somethings wedding who credited Clyde with turning his life around.

At Clyde's funeral his wife said working at the store became his joy in life... he became the man she had married 45 years ago and he loved each and everyone of his co-workers... the manager and regional manager said Clyde was one of a kind.

I only point this out because Clyde did not have to work but it was work that "Saved" him and renewed his purpose in life...

He was also quite generous without fanfare... giving a hand to those down and out saying if you can't pay me back... help someone else after I'm gone...
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:29 PM
 
26,075 posts, read 28,478,940 times
Reputation: 24783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
When I was in my late teens, early 20's and working crap jobs, I used to try to go on unemployment for the summer. I liked being able to sleep late, etc, but in reality I had no structure , stayed in bed too much, watched too much TV, and didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would (I was off but all my friends were at work) and invariably, when I started working again, my grandmother would always comment "You look so much happier when you're working".
This is so true, especially for younger people. The young people I see not working tend to get into all kinds of trouble with drugs and alcohol, stay up late, annoy the neighbors, have no structure, etc...and they're not really happy at all. A life of complete leisure/partying doesn't lead to happiness. We all need challenges.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:58 PM
 
20,533 posts, read 16,605,258 times
Reputation: 38545
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Maybe Clyde didn't want to be home alone with his wife? My wife and I are retired for 9 years. We don't miss work. We each have our own activities and interests, but are together at home or out together most of the time. It takes some imagination to keep active during retirement. I retired at 59, was home alone (my wife hadn't retired yet) for a year, then went back to work for 2 years. At 62, I was retired and my wife was too. Saw no reason to work anymore. Retirement reminds me of being a kid on summer vacation. You found thing to do. They didn't come to you.
OP is not writing about retirement, he's unhappy with the state of life, in having to work (in his words, "be a slave" then retire then die. I think the Clyde story was to make a point to poster to give him another way to look at life and working and make him feel better about where he is in life in having to work.
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Old 10-08-2017, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Central IL
15,201 posts, read 8,509,345 times
Reputation: 35598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
In my family no one ever retires except Mom did at 62.

They all work until they drop.

The difference is all were in business for themselves... and it is a difference.

One side are dairy farmers and the work is 7 days a week but for that side it was everything and they were not slaving for other people.

The other side were small shop keepers and my step grandfather built a small tool and die shop... even in his 80's he was the first to open in the morning and spent every Saturday morning at the shop laying out next weeks work.

He was most grateful for the opportunity America gave him and REFUSED to take one penny of Social Security...

He said where else can a person come with nothing and build a business...

It could very well be we are getting soft and I wonder what past generations would say today?
Americans glorify the small businessperson...and they provide great services and jobs for others. But to hear people talk, EVERYONE should be doing something like that. Is that even reasonable? Is there such an economy where EVERYONE sells something and no one works to make the stuff that is sold? So if that is impossible, let's all keep it in perspective...not everyone can own their own business without others there to help it run...and not everyone can be the big cheese. And if you think the only worthy people are those who can own or run a business then you are truly naive.
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Old 10-08-2017, 01:53 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,190,943 times
Reputation: 17199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksnacknyc View Post
So is everyone in NYC okay with slaving for other people and retiring at an old age and then dying?
It honestly doesn't make any sense to me...
why is life set up this way? It's a system I know but... don't we all wanna stay away from the system?
Thoughts on this?
Life isn't "set up this way" as a "system". What does that even mean? 1960's "the man!"? LOL

Adam and Eve ate an apple. Whoops!

Alternatively you can live like a caveman, go hunt all day, make fire, and live in a mountain near water. Skin some dead animal for your shoes/clothes and pick some grass and berries and you're all set.

Not kidding.

That's called living and breathing. Your choice how elaborate you want to make it. I guess you're unaware of all the failed communes including our nation's pilgrims who had to change their "systems" to account for the quality of LAZY in human nature.

And who's "slaving"? There are 95 million people out of the workforce.

Oh wait. That would be ME. Working my entire life so that I have to pay for birth control for 30 year old Ivy League law students.

I guess you're right /sarc
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