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Old 09-27-2017, 10:32 AM
 
2,736 posts, read 5,548,600 times
Reputation: 5689

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MMM is as silly as the tiny house movement. Good for TV, good for a blog, bad for normal people.

Get yourself a decent job that you don't hate. Live somewhat below your means, save for retirement, and retire when you can afford health care.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Colorado
79 posts, read 56,958 times
Reputation: 346
I used to read MMM. I found it when I searched for information on reaching financial independence on a small stash. I was at the time paying off debt as fast as I could, and had already figured out what I needed for my basic living expenses. I didn’t know how much I needed to save/invest to generate that basic income. I found lots of useful info in his blog and on the forum, and the frugal, efficient lifestyle he promoted was (and is) appealing to me.

I am still working, mostly because of concerns about health care/insurance costs and because I need a bigger buffer, but I feel secure with my level of financial freedom. I think probably financial independence is a more accurate term than retirement for MMMs lifestyle. The goal is to achieve financial freedom to pursue the life you want, whether it involves working or not.

I stopped visiting the site, because it really was meant for young people with high incomes, and I was neither. I got sick of contemptuous attitudes – those who failed to be high earners when young made bad choices and deserved face punches, as did those who had different goals than saving a lot of money and retiring young. I guess I didn’t have much in common with a 20-30 something making a six- figure income.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
1,533 posts, read 864,986 times
Reputation: 2626
Money Mustache seems to attract the Zealots of Frugality. Those folks are talking about canning their own salsa, eating ramen noodles and buying 1/4 Cows !! They'll be stomping their own grapes pretty soon.

I wish there were more practical money-saving topics over there.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:53 AM
 
75,686 posts, read 75,090,806 times
Reputation: 52993
I lost interest in that group , meh, not for me .
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:05 PM
 
15,563 posts, read 8,390,475 times
Reputation: 28195
It's selling the dream. Work 10 years and retire. Personally, I think that any plan that assumes that you'll have access to government cheese health insurance before age 65 is delusional. That's always been my barrier to retirement before I'm Medicare-eligible. 63 1/2 with 18 months of COBRA to bridge to Medicare is the most optimistic plan I have.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
3,476 posts, read 2,150,917 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
Then I read how he "retired" at 30.

He says his family only spends 25k a year. Not surprising in property tax cheap Colorado.

But I still think he was crazy (at the time....now he's getting rich off the blog). At age 30, not knowing what in hell was going to happen to health care , and with a wife and child......

Maybe he knew his"backup" skills could carry him. But it's disingenuous to claim he was forever retired. He's not.
He's not dependent on a corporate job, that's the way I look at it.

His real income is fairly high even today so I'm sure he doesn't qualify for any health care credits. When he reports his spending he back outs some of those expenses he wouldn't have if his income were truly low. A bit like GAAP vs. non-GAAP accounting for corporations.

He's got so many backups it is ridiculous. He's got a high income, marketable skills, and from what I can infer/guess a very high net worth by now. So if some large and unexpected expense were to arise he would likely have no problem. Whereas someone who is operating with no cushion could wind up in a very bad situation. It's a bit like walking a tightrope with a net underneath, or with no net.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
3,476 posts, read 2,150,917 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLoaves View Post
Money Mustache seems to attract the Zealots of Frugality. Those folks are talking about canning their own salsa, eating ramen noodles and buying 1/4 Cows !! They'll be stomping their own grapes pretty soon.

When I was a kid my dad and his brother would buy a cow, have it butchered, and split the outcome. It filled up most of the freezer as I recall. We also bought raw milk from the farmer across the road. When we needed milk my dad would leave a glass jar (one gallon) out by his barn, along with two quarters for payment, before he went to bed. By the time we woke up there was a full jar of milk ready for our breakfast. That made me appreciate the fact that we did not have milk cows!
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
23,798 posts, read 41,457,887 times
Reputation: 25661
can't knock the guy for trying, with genuine intentions of creating more 'family time' than corporate 'doing-time'. It morphed into a cult type thing, but I will guess he is still intent on pursuing his primary goal.

That's fine, and would / could work for many families. Especially professionals with early dual income.

MMM set up some cash flows through income prop investments, that too works for some, but not all.

Some don't ever intend to live frugally, that is fine, they have to pay the time. (unless inherited.. or golden parachute.)

It is nice he availed his info and success for others.

I'm fringe... I would rather consider being home with family, then working when the family departs to find their own life. We homeschooled and lived / worked international, and that re-calibrated our lifestyle +/-. Certainly few are interested or willing to step off the "merry-go-round". Many naysayers proclaim life is impossible unless following the norm.

OK...

Listen and learn, or...

My rear looking perspective tells me... Replace your income with inflation protected income streams ASAP. Age 30 -50 retirement (from the treadmill), is very possible for many. So... I would use age 16 - age 30 as strongly as possible to growth sustaining investments, Stay home with kids till age 45, then go BACK to work (only if you must). MMM accomplished that.
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Old 09-27-2017, 03:23 PM
 
5,938 posts, read 3,678,328 times
Reputation: 7272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
So I finally read up about this guy.

Seems like the way he made his, what, 800k stache, including home equity, was very achievable given he was in tech for the nine short years he was working. I was working in Silicon Valley during the years in question (1997-2005) and can tell you the numbers he talks about as far as income and returns on options,etc, are actually low. But for his young age, maybe not.....

Right place at the right time as far as employable skills are concerned.

Second observation is that he obviously lived well below his means, although not as a pauper, while he was working. He has carpentry skills and thus can maintain a home much cheaper than most of us.

The guy has common sense and obviously an eye toward the future, doesn't have a need to impress or keep up with the Jones. I saw pictures of his home. He did most of the work, and isn't living as a pauper - good for him.

Then I read how he "retired" at 30.
It's not like it is rocket science or brain surgery!

1. Graduate from college with little to no debt at the age of 22.
2. Immediately after graduating, get a high paying job ($125k-150k+) with a very generous 401k plan, that you love doing, or at the very least enjoy.
3. Live way below your means, taking the money you save to invest accordingly.
4. (Bonus) Marry someone with a like mindset that makes the same as you.
5. Retire when you're 30!
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,296 posts, read 50,595,177 times
Reputation: 20158
Everyone views 'retirement' differently.

My career was hazardous and required 7 months of deployments each year. I hated it. I built a vision for my 'retirement' which my Dw agreed to focus on, even before we were married. My retirement was going to be living in the woods with gardens, livestock, off-grid power system, hunting, fishing and foraging.

At 42 the Navy forced me out due to their High-Year-Tenure policy [I was too old] and they gave me a pension. So now we are able to fulfill our vision of 'retirement'.

I built our house out on the forest [which required a lot of labor on my part], we garden, I raise pigs, I am a beekeeper, we are vendors in a Farmer's Market. This lifestyle is something that we enjoy.

My farm income is less than $1,000/year. Our real income is provided by my pension.

In my eyes, I am retired.
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